06 CRD transmission shatter on the highway

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Hi everyone, I did get the F37 done in 2011 not realizing my mistake.
First I noticed the transmission to be slipping a lot. Then as I get on the highway overdrive kicks in at 80-90 km/hr.
As soon as I accelerate almost full throttle [3/4 - full], it starts shatter up to about 110 km/h and will not downshift. It will do it when the transmission is not warmed up completely in cold weather. I went back to the dealer and was told off because I have GDE tune on it. Everything was fine before the flash. :banghead:

Contacting Chrysler Canada only got me back to the dealer to reflash the transmission in case there was a problem, since I didn't buy the vehicle from them.
I tried to talk the mechanic into flashing it back to original, but he said that the machine wont let him.
[It shows big exclamation sign on the screen if he tries]

Anyone can tell me what could it be?
Also what my options are to get the fun back, I worry slippage and shake will wear out the internals.

thanks

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:20 am

Ok, firstly, you can't get the F37 reversed. Secondly - I'm assuming you have one of the GDE ECU tunes? If so, they won't have any effect on the shuddering issue - if anything they improve driveability, not detract from it.

I suspect that your issue is one a lot of people on here (including me) have had, and that is with the Torque convertor. If you have the original TC, then unfortunately it came with slightly weaker springs. No problem at first, but with the wear and tear of driving, you can start to get shudder issues. Mine for example, appeared when I'd be going up a slope on the Motorway at about 50mph (about 1800 rpm) - others had it happen when towing - search the forum and you should find quite a number of posts about it. If not addressed, it can lead to accelerated wear on the transmission.

The only solution really is to replace the tc - IF that IS the problem. If it is, then you are either looking at a Suncoast unit, or the current Chrysler replacement (referred to by many as the "Euro TC"). There is another poster on here whose company is looking to make a tc which is somewhere between the Chrysler and the Suncoast for strength, but I don't know how far that project has gone.

I'm assuming here that your mechanic knows diesels - especially the KJ CRD and has eliminated any other potential transmission/driveline causes for your problem. If so - then it is remarkable how many competent dealers are unaware of the TC issue. Mine is very good for example, but had never heard of the issue - nor had Chrysler UK, and it had never been reported in England apparently. I had to refer them to the relevant posts on this board.

If it is the problem, and you replace the TC, then you might also want to consider the GDE TCM tune. It's not the same as the F37, but sort of similar - according to the posts I've read about it and the data on GDE's website.

Actually, thinking about it, it might be a good idea to email GDE setting out the problem and when it occurs to get their take on it. They are extremely knowledgable about the KJ CRD.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:36 pm

I would like to know how the dealer even knew you had the GDE tune. Did you tell them?

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Thanks for the reply and tips, the TC is about 6 months old. It was installed with the F37 at the end of September. And I do suspect the TC can't handle the torque just because it happens at max power rpm.

Replacement of TQ will be happening much later because today I finished installing 4 broken rocker arms on #1 cylinder. Driving on highway it just started misfiring and that was it. No idea what caused it. Now I have fuel leak right by the injectors [3-4] suspecting one of the rubber lines or connectors. Just got code 0093. Maybe I was shaking the fuel filter around too much.
So until I sort these pressing issues no chance for Suncoast TQ.

At first dealer reflashed everything, but after I did my reflashy thingy back to GDE full Torque tune. Then I went to complain about the transmission program and they agreed it sucked and reflashed the transmission again. However I made sure that they don't touch the motor ECU. The Shop manager owned CRD, one like mine and went for test drive. When he returned, he was blown away by the difference in performance. Reflashing the tranny again didn't fix anything.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:36 pm

Four broken rocker arms (so, both intake and exhaust) - and did the timing belt appear to be in-time?

That's the kind of thing that breaks when belts get old, teeth on the belt break off, and the belt slips..

Shatter is an interesting word choice. The picture I had was pieces of it lying all over the highway after it had shattered (like glass) into many little pieces. :wink:

Now, shudder, I think we've all experienced in OD under load - especially those of us with stock TCs.

Looking forward to the Suncoast unit so I can hammer it; still, I'll be happy to get the last mile out of the OEM unit. Don't tow...and it's mostly driven by Ma. :BINGO:

Mark

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

In September I did timing belt water pump job, which lasted until last month. Water pump bearing gave out and had a little snack on one side of my timing belt. Pulling it out I found out that the pump was not OEM but a Chinese knock off.

After it being replaced, I managed to drive OK for 2 days before I noticed some slight lifter ticking at idle. Timing belt/tensioner were OK no damage or wear.

It may have been started by the water pump because when it seized yanked on the tensioner and got it loose.
That may have caused some damage. I heard noise and seen the leak still idling ok, so I shut it of and towed it home, hoping there was no engine damage.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:43 am

Must've stretched the belt enough to catch #1... dang.

Hope you get it healed up quickly! :JEEPIN:

TheImaginaryMe wrote:

In September I did timing belt water pump job, which lasted until last month. Water pump bearing gave out and had a little snack on one side of my timing belt. Pulling it out I found out that the pump was not OEM but a Chinese knock off.

After it being replaced, I managed to drive OK for 2 days before I noticed some slight lifter ticking at idle. Timing belt/tensioner were OK no damage or wear.

It may have been started by the water pump because when it seized yanked on the tensioner and got it loose.
That may have caused some damage. I heard noise and seen the leak still idling ok, so I shut it of and towed it home, hoping there was no engine damage.

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

The lifters are done, but since I put it back I have fuel leak.
Trying to find out where it's leaking from but no luck. I tried to pull
Injector plugs but it keeps leaking. To my eye i can't see it leaking, just
The bottom of injectors is filed with fuel and dropping fuel under the car.
At driving speed upper revs, it sprays the whole harnes and firewall.
I did pull out #3 injector as main suspect and sanded the brass washer with 600 grid.
No luck. Could the injector be stuck open and compresion forcing fuel up?
I thought of the return line leak, #4 is hard to see.
I am lost... :5SHOTS:

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:13 pm

Did you torque the fuel line fittings to the FSM spec?

Did you use new o-rings and copper washers on the lower portion of the injectors or attempt to re-use the originals?

Mark
--

TheImaginaryMe wrote:

The lifters are done, but since I put it back I have fuel leak.
Trying to find out where it's leaking from but no luck. I tried to pull
Injector plugs but it keeps leaking. To my eye i can't see it leaking, just
The bottom of injectors is filed with fuel and dropping fuel under the car.
At driving speed upper revs, it sprays the whole harnes and firewall.
I did pull out #3 injector as main suspect and sanded the brass washer with 600 grid.
No luck. Could the injector be stuck open and compresion forcing fuel up?
I thought of the return line leak, #4 is hard to see.
I am lost... :5SHOTS:

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Ok, it is the lower copper seal that is leaking. Both seals are new.
TQ is to be 25 lb and went to 30lb. No luck, fuel is being pushed up
As soon as I go higher revs than idle. I suspect it is the seat in the head,
In which case I have no idea what tool can fit in there and polish it.
I'll post pics what the injectors looked like when I pulled them out. Noone is able to
Tell me how and why the other 3 injectors are fine and this one is not.
Almost ready to light a Match. :frankie:

5 days of trying, I even doubled the gaskets
With same result.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:59 pm

I wonder if a bit of debris is stuck to the seat where the copper washer mates with the head..

Alternately, the the matching surface on the injector itself - again where the copper washer sits and mates w/injector.

Less likely but not impossible would be damage from longer term leakage; but I'd strongly favor one of the first two.

Is that little steel button (like a hearing aid battery) firmly seated in the pocket in the engine cover at the 'back' (farthest from injector) of the crow's foot?

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Yes, there is the spacer button. I added 1 extra to see if the fork
Was bottoming out. Injector is clean, washer new. The only thing
Is the seat, which I can't get to. It looks quite rough and not smooth.
Whoever installed the injectors before I bought it ripped the rubber
seals putting them in, so dirt and chemicals, debrie got all the way down.
My uneducated guess at this time would be bad seat - porous or eaten away.
Engine sounds good, smooth, strong, no smoke.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:25 am

Might need to talk to a shop that does diesels all day - can't be the first time that either fluid under pressure or electrolysis has eaten an injector seat. I'm thinking the choices might be a) remove enough material that the copper can seat or b) add something like J.B. Weld to fill in the voids? Just making this up as I go.. need a professional's opinion here.

Wonder if high-temp silicone RTV would fill those voids and hold... if it had time to cure?

Mark

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Tomorrow I am going to pull the injector and see the spray intervals.
If its open all the time, it would suggest the ceramic part had cracked.
As for silicone RTV, the pressures from combustion would just go on as if
nothing was there. JB weld is good as long as it doesn't catch the seal, then
later removal would be bad news.
It starts to scare me, that the injector is bad and pushing too much fuel in.
Now realized to check oil if there is any fuel in there.
I'll post updates.

flman · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:47 am

TheImaginaryMe wrote:

Hi everyone, I did get the F37 done in 2011 not realizing my mistake.
First I noticed the transmission to be slipping a lot. Then as I get on the highway overdrive kicks in at 80-90 km/hr.
As soon as I accelerate almost full throttle [3/4 - full], it starts shatter up to about 110 km/h and will not downshift. It will do it when the transmission is not warmed up completely in cold weather. I went back to the dealer and was told off because I have GDE tune on it. Everything was fine before the flash. :banghead:

Contacting Chrysler Canada only got me back to the dealer to reflash the transmission in case there was a problem, since I didn't buy the vehicle from them.
I tried to talk the mechanic into flashing it back to original, but he said that the machine wont let him.
[It shows big exclamation sign on the screen if he tries]

Anyone can tell me what could it be?
Also what my options are to get the fun back, I worry slippage and shake will wear out the internals.

thanks

What tune do you have? Hot or Eco? Hot tune will cause alot of shuddering on the stock converter, Eco should not cause any shuddering. You need the Euro TC or the Suncoast if you have the Hot tune.

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Yes I have the hot tune and unable to get the suncoast for the above
reasons. I have limited budget, so until I find my fuel problem I won't be anywhere
near that powerband.

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Just checked at the dealer and found out that the new injector
is $1300 dollars plus 14% tax. Are these guys insane?
My price recap-
Watter pump- $400 CD (other car pumps go for $50-$140)
Timing belt only- $350 (other cars +- $70)
Injector- $1500 (each)
Watter pump job is charged 2 days labour at $110/hour.
Timing belt job is charged $1900.
I am lucky I do everything myself and when i talked to the diesel Mechanic
I tought him how to change waterpump without pulling the turbo and manifold.
Bottom line, Canada is not a diesel friendly country.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:03 pm

TheImaginaryMe wrote:

Just checked at the dealer and found out that the new injector
is $1300 dollars plus 14% tax. Are these guys insane?
My price recap-
Watter pump- $400 CD (other car pumps go for $50-$140)
Timing belt only- $350 (other cars +- $70)
Injector- $1500 (each)
Watter pump job is charged 2 days labour at $110/hour.
Timing belt job is charged $1900.
I am lucky I do everything myself and when i talked to the diesel Mechanic
I tought him how to change waterpump without pulling the turbo and manifold.
Bottom line, Canada is not a diesel friendly country.

You have got to stop ordering parts from the Canadian dealer. Our dollar is at par with the US dollar, yet all parts up here are a minimum double the price. Order from the US wholesale mopar sites and have either shipped to US border and pick up yourself, or there are a couple that will ship all the way into Canada and won't completely bend you over on the shipping charges.

TheImaginaryMe · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm **Posts:** 16

Ok, Canadian stealer is fired.
The solution was bad injector. It was pumping so much fuel in the
combustion chamber, that on compression stroke it had nowhere to go.
The only way to relieve the presure was through injector seal.
It seems injectors are so fragile, that tiny tap will break the inside
of it. That said, by installing rebuild injector it all works fine.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Any chance you could let me know your fuel history, filter change interval and any air in fuel issues? If you can get the injector and ship it to me I can get it analyzed. I would be very interested to know if the rocker arms grenading led to this failure or if it was fuel contamination. The injectors have been fairly robust comparatively speaking on this vehicle. Which is not saying much...

06 CRD transmission shatter on the highway

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