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Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy week
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69145		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy week
This week I replaced the original metal fan with the 11 blade nylon one and the fan clutch with the Hayden 2905. What a big difference in reduced sound and no decrease in cooling :wink: The lower temperature of the Hayden clutch is exactly the opening temperature of our thermostats assuming a good thermostat. Reported benefits are better AC preformace in slow traffic and better all around cooling :JEEPIN:
The 11 blade fan is Mopar #52079654AD and the price at the local dealer was $77.50 and yes it's cheaper on line but when shipping is added it's closer and I've had a bad experience with mopartsamerica and do not wish to repeat it :banghead:
On the advice from Doug in Colorado I made my own tool to remove the fan clutch. It was easy and cheap. I brazed the 1/4" tips on but bolts and nuts worked for Doug. I also own a large adjustable wrench that has helped me many times over the years and worked fine. Let's see now, 10 minutes to make the tool and ten more to use it :jester:
The long arm on the tool rests where the air cleaner box normally sits and the prongs fit into two holes that are in the pulley behind the clutch. The tool is made from 1/8" by 3/4" wide steel. Yes it's flimsey but I had it on hand and it worked well :BANANA:
My 16" Craftsman adjustable wrench fit the fan hub. I tried using the wrench alone and banging it with a small sledge hammer and it didn't budge.
Time to make the tool, remove the old and install the new was 2.5 hours but I did computer field service before retiring and have learned to work faster then most.
Others have found out the radiator is very thin and can be distroyed very easy and recommend putting cardboard between the radiator and fan. It was not too easy to get the cardboard there with the shroud on but once the shroud was off it was very easy to put two pieces of thick cardboard side by side (that's important for removing them) over the radiator's finned area. Then when finished the TWO pieces can be removed from UNDER the car. Easy to see.
Yes the fan clutch is right hand thread. Looking at the metal fan it's easy to see that much of the blades shape was dictated by fastening the blades to the center part, hence the noise :dizzy:3
I don't need to say anything about Samco hoses other then I got the shiny black ones. They look nice without the "bling" of a bright color. On removal I found the original turbo to cooler was leaking and starting to rip. They had 52k miles on them.

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Author:  racertracer [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Looks good Joe... thanks for the write up.
Author:  crawdad-480 [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Thanks for the write up and the part #'s. Can you post basic dimensions of the tool you made to hold the pully (ie length of each leg and position of pivot point where the two legs are connected)?
I need to replace my fan clutch and will probably make the tool.

Thanks.
Author:  Glend [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Nice write up. One suggestion, you don't need to make a special tool to remove the fan or fan clutch. Using your big adjustable wrench, simply rotate the fan pulley nut clockwise until you line up one of the pulley holes with the fan assembly mounting bolt head inside the pulley hole window (this is in about the 3 oclock position as you face the front). Insert a 13mm socket through the pulley hole onto the bolt head and back the pulley slightly counter-clockwise until it locks against the socket. You can now remove (counter-clockwise) the fan and clutch assembly - just remember to remove the socket before you try to start the engine. Obviously you need an adjustable wrench that will go out to 36mm for both rotating the fan and clutch nut and removing it from the shaft. I find a simple tap with a good sized hammer will start the nut moving for removal - counterclockwise to remove, clockwise to tighten.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
When I did mine last year, I tried that trick, but the nut would not break loose.
Even when I hit the 24" adjustable wrench with a big hammer, it would not budge.
I bought the Fan Clutch wrench kit from NAPA, positioned both handles so I could squeeze them with both hands as hard as I could, and got it off.
Joe's holding tool looks a lot like what I bought from NAPA, the wrench is just hardened tool steel.

I get to take the Fan Clutch off again when I do the timing belt.

The Hayden Severe Duty fan Clutch and 11 blade nylon fan works great.
Author:  TJ2 [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Nice write-up Joe. I've taken mine off a couple times (fixed fan and then Hayden). Last time I thought to put anti-seize on the threads. Will find out how well that worked this fall when I remove the fan altogether for winter.
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
I did this mod a month ago and I noticed that engine fan humm was eliminated and when the fan clutch engages the fan moves an enormous amount of air.

The original set up was noisy and air movement was not evident...... ever.
Author:  Glend [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
For some people this is out of the question , but if you vent the hood it will move alot more air. There is a pressure bubble that builds up between the hood and the top of the engine when underway (I know this because I measured it with a differential air pressure gauge). The top surface of the hood is a low pressure area and this aids is sucking the heat out, and allows more flow through the cooling stack.
Author:  striperman36 [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
you can also do the sir sam and put a socket on one of the hidden nuts , that seems to be the easiest way.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Glend wrote:
For some people this is out of the question , but if you vent the hood it will move alot more air. There is a pressure bubble that builds up between the hood and the top of the engine when underway (I know this because I measured it with a differential air pressure gauge). The top surface of the hood is a low pressure area and this aids is sucking the heat out, and allows more flow through the cooling stack.


I know some people have added luevors (sp?) to the hood for venting heat but I was wondering if the hood could be adjusted or shimmed so that it is raised up and allow hot air to escape over the cowl.
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Here is a an idea.... what are the consequeces of removing the rear firewall gasket on top where it meets the hood?
Author:  ATXKJ [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
racertracer wrote:
Here is a an idea.... what are the consequeces of removing the rear firewall gasket on top where it meets the hood?


you blow heated engine air into the cabin vent system..... (although it might help cool the engine)
Author:  Glend [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Raising the hood up at the back or removing the rear gasket won't help once the vehicle starts to move through the air (no matter what some people will swear). At rest or very low crawl speed air can escape from the back of the hood if it is raised or the gasket removed and you can feel it - due to the higher pressure under the hood caused by the fan, however, once you start to move at speeds above about 20mph, the pressure ridge that forms at the based of the windshield stops airflow at the rear of the hood and reverses it - forcing more pressure into the underhood area and further reducing coolant stack airflow. I tried the gasket trick when I was measuring the differential air pressures and it does not help vent the heat out from under the hood - the reason is that high pressure area that builds up in front of the windshield which prevents the relatively lower pressure under the hood from escaping that way. Removing the gasket actually causes an increase in under hood pressures and blocks airflow through the cooling stack more than leaving it alone. By venting the hood at it's low pressure point (which is from 300mm to 600mm back from the top of the J in the Jeep logo) you will get good extraction from the louvres because of the pressure differential. All of the pressure reading are in my post on venting, located here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66736&p=732781&hilit=pressure#p732781
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
You are absolutely right Glend.
Apparently I have forgotten how a cowl induction hood worked. :wink:

I officially authorize you to change your name to Cooling System Expert. :SOMBRERO:
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
ATXKJ wrote:
racertracer wrote:
Here is a an idea.... what are the consequeces of removing the rear firewall gasket on top where it meets the hood?


you blow heated engine air into the cabin vent system..... (although it might help cool the engine)

I am thinking of getting hood louvers likr tj has. That is all part of my winter "keep it cool" project.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Author:  striperman36 [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
ATXKJ wrote:
racertracer wrote:
Here is a an idea.... what are the consequeces of removing the rear firewall gasket on top where it meets the hood?


you blow heated engine air into the cabin vent system..... (although it might help cool the engine)



if you have an ehm or a cracked hose,intercooler you'll be breathin it. I don't think that's a good idea
Author:  Topan [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Hi guys,
i still have big over-heating problems (appeared 7'000 miles ago and i have 120k). Whenever I go up a hill or a long uphill road, the temperature goes above the middle, and then the gears stop switching upwards.... :banghead:
I have dismounted the radiator and cleaned it well, it improved a bit still the over is still here.

I plan on replacing the clutch and the fan by the set you describe.
my question: what tool do i need ?
is that enough to remove the clutch/fan: Lisle 41730 Fan Clutch Wrench - 3 Piece Set
at 63$ on amazon.


thanks !!!
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Topan wrote:
Hi guys,
I plan on replacing the clutch and the fan by the set you describe.
my question: what tool do i need ?
is that enough to remove the clutch/fan: Lisle 41730 Fan Clutch Wrench - 3 Piece Set
at 63$ on amazon.


thanks !!!

Those don't look long enough. These look longer :SOMBRERO:
http://www.amazon.com/Assenmacher-Speci ... sim_auto_2
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-Dodge-Clutc ... sbs_auto_7

The tool I made for the pulley is of very thin material and only worked because of the leverage I got from it being so long.
With my 24" adjustable wrench I was able to get them off supprisingly easy, no banging or extension.
Before making the tool I tried the "brute force and banging" method to no avail :furious:
Since you have already removed the radiator you have the worse part down pat :banghead:
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
Topan I'm not sure that Lisle wrench set will work as it's not clear to me if any of those wrenches are 36mm or if the shaft on the 36mm one is long enough to hit with a hammer or some other impact tool. You need 2 things to remove the fan assembly, keeping in mind that you have to remove the fan shroud at the same time and should consider a fan shroud mod to improve future access while you are at it, 1) something to hold the fan base in place while unscrewing things (see comment below) and 2) a 36mm wrench with a long handle to beat on or to which can be attached a "cheater" bar. The fan is on really tight and the friction from the serp belt is simply not enough to hold the base in place while the fan is broken loose to unscrew.

See my post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17502&p=728285&hilit=lisle#p728285 and the embeded links for some more information.
Author:  crawdad-480 [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hayden, Samco, Nylon fan and special tool spell a busy w
To all who posted info in this forum, thank you. I tried the 13mm socket idea but that did not work.
However, the info posted by papaindigo proved to be the magic key. I used a 8mm allen wrench in one
of the holes in the pulley. It hits the bolt behind the pulley and locks the pulley. Then a simple
open end wrench will finish it off. I would suggest removing the air box to access the fan clutch
with the wrench. This gave me enough room to get some good leverage to loosen the fan clutch nut.
Only took about an hour to change the fan clutch and fan once I knew how to lock the pulley. The
11 blade is a much better set up.
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