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 Post subject: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Ok, so I'm stumped about this...

The other thread about forgotten maintenance items got me thinking about this clunking my CRD has been doing for a while now. It sounds just like what you might expect a broken engine mount to sound like - a low pitched rattle of parts hitting each other while at low speeds. (The engine mounts are both replaced BTW, and only the passenger was bad) This isn't a specific single clunk noise, it is more like a pin in the center of a bushing mount... But without the bushing there at all. That is the best way I can think to describe it, or like the sound of a large can with 3-4 big loose nuts in it.

Anyway, so I went on a hunt under the front end today just for giggles. I had previously had the driver's wheel off when doing the brakes, and had leaned on the CV axle at one point and it shifted in toward the pumpkin a bit (1/8") and made a similar sound - once. So I'm suspecting something in that area. Banging on the undercarriage with a dead blow mallet, NOTHING is moving. Anywhere.

Then I see a bolt move - One of the two forward mountings for (what I'm assuming is) the support plate under the front differential. The one on the driver's side just where the lower control arm connects, that bolt is loose and the nut is backed half-way out and makes a similar sound when I wiggle it! A-HA!

Tighten that back up - A lot - and go for a drive... darn noise is still there. The other forward mounting point is solid... And I can't seem to find anything else loose. I'm reasonably certain it is somewhere attached to the driveline and not in the suspension, and it doesn't change when I engage the transfer case into full or part-time... So WTF is going on? Give me something to look at, please.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:30 pm 
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I had a front end noise too. Mostly once a day backing out of the garage. At first I suspected a sticking caliper. Nope. The noise varied from a snap to a clunk.
Thinking ball joints and needing an alternator for a bad clutch I took it in under my 7/70 warranty.
The noise turned out to be the "lower control arm bolts" :dizzy: Over a year ago just before the clicking kind of noise started they had replaced the steering rack and had most of the front end out :dead: I guess it's a big deal getting a rack out of a CRD :JEEPIN:

Anyway they tightened the bolts and the clicks and clunks are gone and along with a lot of other rattle type noise as you discribe that I didn't pay much attention to :ALONE:
I don't know if they left the bolts loose or they worked loose by themselves :?:

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Check the front drive shaft rear boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:24 am 
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I also have a clunk, mine happens when I come to a stop such as a light after getting out of the freeway or bumper to bumper traffic. It is a semi-loud clunk after releasing the brakes, I've look all around and have not been able to spot a thing so insights are appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:59 am 
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I have the same clunking noise after releasing the brakes and can't for the life of me figure out where it is from. It is driving me crazy!


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:27 am 
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I had a strange rattle noise also, turned out to be my exhaust is loose and rattles at certain RPM's and idle. Tied a rubber bungee cord around it and hooked to the frame and noise went away.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 pm 
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chillmobil wrote:
I have the same clunking noise after releasing the brakes and can't for the life of me figure out where it is from. It is driving me crazy!


It's the driveshaft slip yoke. Remove and grease the splines at the forward end. Sounds different from geordi's problem.

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 Post subject: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:54 pm 
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kskj wrote:
Check the front drive shaft rear boot.


FINALLY had a few minutes to get under there and have a look / feel at this... (it's been a crazy few days with working) and what I found is this:

I'm not sure there IS a rear boot, I saw what looked like a boot clamp on a very short rear section of the forward driveshaft, but a rubber boot wasn't obvious. It may have been there and just fine, I couldn't really tell. The forward boot looked fine however. This is what I DID discover though:

Rotating the forward driveshaft back and forth (there was no slop end-to-end) the slop was about a 1/2" long point-to-point... And I could hear and feel what sounded like something metallic pinging INSIDE the middle of the driveshaft!

WTF is that? Do I need to replace the whole driveshaft? Is there some form of tensioner in there that is now broken?

I'm on the way to the parts store anyway right now (Hayden clutch time) so if you have any suggestions, please do, and I can order that along with the clutch.

I love this forum. Without this place... I might not ever get all the noises in this thing solved.


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Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Well after going thru most of the suspension I found out that my ASFIR Front Engine Skid was making contact with the LCA inboard when it was becoming unloaded (drooping down). Somehow the two small sides were bent up just snuff to make contact. I also found that the Transfercase/Tranny ASFIR skid was a bit loose causing a slight jingly rattle.

I swear i am going to make this CRD rattle and clunk free if it kills me :dizzy:

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:58 pm 
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asfir? WTF is that?

Sorry - I don't have skid plate noises b/c my skid plate is resting comfortably under my trailer. There aren't any rock-strewn trails on the highways or soft muddy lawns I drive on around here. :)

No thoughts on the driveshaft tho?

I'm toying with the idea of unbolting the front driveshaft and driving around a bit for a test to see if the noise is gone... Any thoughts / problems with doing this? I guess I will need to try pulling out either end piece before I do, to see if they will fall out on their own while I test it, or leak juices everywhere. I found out at the parts shop that a forward driveshaft is $350... There better be a DAMMNED good reason a metal tube costs so much!

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2005 CRD Mods:
Ventilation violently installed in two different blocks.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

It may be that the purpose of my CRD is to serve as a warning to others...


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Hey geordi,

I just pulled my front driveshaft chasing down a noise. I too have what appears to be something inside that is loose. Having the shaft out, I can tip it end over end and hear it rattle downward. Sounds like a "small" piece of metal that had broken free.

I still opened the caps on both front and rear CVs of the shaft, still plenty of grease and the boots are tear free. I did drive with the shaft off and I "think" I am noise free, but my imagination could be playing tricks. Since the ends looks free and clear, it is possible whatever is inside the shaft could be making a noise (my noise IS different than yours) but for the price of a new drive shaft I am not about to find out :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Oh, I definitely hear something in the middle of the tube, and I could also *feel* it right there against my hand. I think I will be unbolting it tomorrow and drive around without it for at least a few hundred feet - I live on a dirt-and-rocks road, this noise is VERY prevalent on this road at low speeds. I will know instantly if this is the source of my noises... I suspect it is, though that wouldn't explain the tire cupping that subsequently cleared itself up. *sigh*... The joys of owning a project vehicle. :5SHOTS:

If I can feel it fall from end-to-end... I might investigate the possibility of drilling a hole in the very end of the tube and see if I can get whatever it is out... But I don't have much hope for that idea. WTF was Chrysler thinking, designing a simple driveshaft with something inside it?

A basic tube with universal joints was too simple a design, that it had worked flawlessly for over 100 years, they had to reinvent that wheel and add more crap to break and cost money?

Sheesh... Ask a Chrysler droid to add up 2+2, they would probably have to get to the answer by multiplying by 4 and taking the square root of the answer.

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Provider of high quality timing belt jobs anywhere on the I-95 corridor. Need help? Just ask! I've probably taken it apart more than most.

2005 CRD Mods:
Ventilation violently installed in two different blocks.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

It may be that the purpose of my CRD is to serve as a warning to others...


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 pm 
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The rear boot is a concave boot it faces the front of the driveshaft. If you stick your finger in it you will feel a smooth rubber surface. Or you will feel ball bearings if the boot is deteriorated.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:06 am 
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geordi wrote:
asfir? WTF is that?

!


These are some aluminum skid plates made in Israel...Front Engine, Transfercase-Tranny, Fuel and Rock Rails. For free I really couldn't go wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:58 pm 
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camo wrote:
I also have a clunk, mine happens when I come to a stop such as a light after getting out of the freeway or bumper to bumper traffic. It is a semi-loud clunk after releasing the brakes, I've look all around and have not been able to spot a thing so insights are appreciated.


Your symptoms sounds like the rear drive shaft slip yoke needing some grease.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Front prop shaft is removed, the rear boot is completely severed at the closest point to the universal, so it looks like for a $20 rubber boot, I get to spend $370... Yea, I'm LOVING that design. :banghead:

Oh, and the Jeep drives just fine without it, and that FRELLING NOISE IS STILL EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!!!!!

DANGIT!

So I'm going to leave the prop shaft out, I don't really use it in 4wd during the summer anyway, and I'm not buying another driveshaft until I figure out this noise.
Tomorrow I think I'm going to take it to an alignment / tire shop and tell them to beat the piss out of the undercarriage until they find this noise. This is pissing me off now.

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2005 CRD Mods:
Ventilation violently installed in two different blocks.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

It may be that the purpose of my CRD is to serve as a warning to others...


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:25 pm 
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geordi,
Is it possible to have a new front shaft built using real u-joints at both ends? These would be greasable and servicable!

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:23 pm 
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geordi,

The rear CV joint is about $65 and a complete drive shaft is about $195

at www.driveshaftparts.com

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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:43 am 
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bugnout wrote:
geordi,

The rear CV joint is about $65 and a complete drive shaft is about $195

at http://www.driveshaftparts.com


Good to know, thanks. First thing I am planning to do (after the alignment shop gets done bludgeoning the underbody) is call around to driveshaft rebuilders and see what they might want to have a look at this and maybe put a normal boot onto it.

I *think* the joints and the shaft are OK, it seems perfectly solid, so maybe the boot didn't tear too long ago, and it isn't like I have been taking it through any rivers recently.

I like the thought of serviceable U-joints... Not that I've ever put a drop of grease onto any U-joint on any car I've ever driven. Some parts just aren't normal maintenance items that get thought about. On my 97 Grand Cherokee, we went over 220k miles without (as far as I know) ever doing anything with the rear differential. It started whining one day on a highway drive from Savannah to South Florida, and making unhappy grinding / chewing metal noises about 1/2 way through the trip. Took it directly to the shop after that - They said the differential had eaten one bearing completely and one of the axles was almost OUT of the pumpkin b/c of the chewing where the bearing had been.

Oops.

This banging on the other hand... Doesn't seem to affect anything with the handling or the performance, it is just annoying as hell, b/c I strongly suspect it has something to do with why the tires cupped. The problem is, the tire cupping then smoothed out and hasn't returned, and I haven't done anything to FIX the problem yet - B/c I still don't know where it is! It has been doing this for over 5k miles now, and I've had enough. The driveshaft... Can wait.

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2005 CRD Mods:
Ventilation violently installed in two different blocks.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

It may be that the purpose of my CRD is to serve as a warning to others...


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 Post subject: Re: Front end clunking noises
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Well passenger side boot is torn somewhere, slinging grease and "clicking" while driving. Got to find a replacement part and get it fixed. Seems like I have almost gone over the whole CRD lately in the last year at 140,000 miles.

Replaced rear U-Joint at Pumpkin (01/11)
New Front Struts (OME) and Front Sway bar Bushings (04/11)
Replaced front Rotor and Brakes (Cryo Slotted and Pads) (05/11)
New Tires...Cooper 255/70/16 AT3s (05/12)
Replaced Timing Belt and Water Pump (06/12)
Replaced Upper and Lower Intercooler Hoses (06/12)
Replaced Steering Rack Bushings/Rear Wishbone Bushings (06/12)
Fuel Filter (06/12)
...and some other little things like the windshield washer nozzles and schrader valve for the AC and Refridgerant

Seems like i should be pretty close to being done

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