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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
akwcrd wrote:
So they did not run it through all of the test, but the transmission does go into limp mode once it is up to operating temp. and the A/C is on. A/C off it seems it might just stay cool enough to stay running normal and no codes come on. I don't understand why the A/C and trans. fluid would be on the same grid/condenser.


Its just the way they designed it. I guess with your AC running your tranny cooler cannot dump enough heat.

What part of the world are you in?


Southwest, Ohio, we have had consistent 100+ degree days, even seen 109 one day, it is cool today 77 degrees, so I am going to take it out for a test drive and see how it does. If this is the problem, what is everyone's opinion, go with another factory replacement condenser, or leave the a/c be and disconnect the trans. lines from the condenser and go with an after market trans. cooler (separate from the a/c) from the auto parts store?

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:06 pm 
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As far as I now, with the exception of some gassers with a heavy duty towing pkg, most all vehicles combine (not too bright IMHO but cheap) the tranny cooler with something else. Very commonly in the bottom of the radiator. In any case that colocation can case overheating of tranny fluid or whatever other fluid is nearby.

Assuming your system runs fine with the AC off and that your coolant temp gauge is running in the normal zone (ie just a tiny bit left of vertical) I'd suggest:
1. take a look at the front of the AC condensor for excess crud, clean as need be. Check the back side of the AC condensor also; you may be able to do this by undoing the 2 bolts (about 1/2 way down on each side) that hold the fan shroud in place, clip the zip ties that hold the AC line to the 2 plastic pads on the top of the fan shroud, which should (I hope) let you slide the fan shroud up/back enough to shine a light down in that area and flush if need be, put shroud back in place being sure to 1) use EXACTLY the same bolts you removed (accidental use of too long bolts produce instant radiator holes and 2) new zip ties for the AC line.
2. confirm that your AC electric fan is working on both high and low cycle; if it's not working AC performance would be poor and the AC condensor would likely overheat.
3. have a decent AC shop, dealer not necessary, check AC performance for something else that might cause AC condensor to over heat.
4. don't waste money replacing the AC condensor/tranny cooler pkg. Either take the OEM tranny cooler entirely out of the loop or install an extra tranny cooler (http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/transcooler.htm or viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62013&p=686385&hilit=cooler#p686385 for example). I suspect with a good oversize aux. tranny cooler there is no real need for the one in the bottom of the AC condensor.

I would note though if your tranny temp sensor is getting unhappy (eg. not working right) just because the tranny is at operating temp, as opposed to actually getting hot, the above may not be enough for obvious reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Thank you for the info. I will check this out. Drove it 30-40 miles today with no a/c on and it felt like a brand new trans. Except for one time I accelerated hard and made a 90 degree turn from a dead stop and the check engine light came on and it went into limp mode stuck in 3rd gear. I stopped, shut it down, erased the code, started it up and drove it 20 more miles with no light and no problems what so ever. I was thinking to just pull the trans. lines from the condenser and run them to their own cooler and leave the a/c lines to eliminate the need of losing all of the r134a and re-filling it. I am thinking also that the low and maybe the high fan is not working for the trans. cooler, unless the a/c is on then the fan works, but it needs the fan running even if the a/c is off IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:33 am 
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I don't offhand know what triggers that electric fan or how to test it but you certainly need to make sure it is functioning correctly. That hard turn comment makes me wonder if your tranny fluid level is correct and, just a reminder, that it's filled with ATF+4

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:16 am 
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papaindigo wrote:
I don't offhand know what triggers that electric fan or how to test it but you certainly need to make sure it is functioning correctly. That hard turn comment makes me wonder if your tranny fluid level is correct and, just a reminder, that it's filled with ATF+4


I have checked the fluid cold and hot and it is perfectly in the middle of the 2 dots, where it is supposed to be, but maybe I should get it to where it is at the upper end of the dots, and yes I use Mopar ATF+4, and sometimes Advanced Auto Parts ATF+4.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:17 am 
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Also, a clogged MAP sensor and MAF sensor will cause the "LIMP MODE" to activate (trust me) and has nothing to do with your transmission. Also what the P0101 code is about, I had it as well.

Get some non-chlorinated brake parts cleaner while you're out and if you search around here on the forums it's about a 15 minute fix (if it cleans up that fast).

Insofar as the tranny EC's, best of luck to you.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:37 am 
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P0101 Pnd Mod12 Mass or Volume air flow A circuit range/performance, They may need cleaned, I am going to buy the aux. trans. cooler at autozone right now that was recommended on the other forum linked in my forum and install that. Where is the two sensors you mentioned located?

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:16 am 
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Image

That's a pretty good diagram stolen from the Noob Guide, shows where the MAF and MAP are located.

MAF sensor looks kind of like a double wafer circuit board with an intake and shouldn't be too dirty, but it will be dirty.

MAP sensor looks like this:

Image

Image


I stole all these pictures from the NOOB guide, you should go read it for a LOT of information.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

Clean them both, should clear the P0101 and help a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Awesome! great pics and info. I am going to clean this stuff right now. I just installed the 911401 trans. cooler from autozone that another guy recommended on here, it fit great, I just used zip ties to install it and didn't even have to cut the factory lines, i just slipped the rubber hose that comes with the new aux. cooler and put hose clamps on it, it came with everything I needed to do the job.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 pm 
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The M.A.P. sensor was very dirty just like the one in the pic, and the M.A.F. sensor was slightly dirty just like you described, I cleaned them both very good with non-chlorinated brake cleaner and they looked brand new, I am going to drive it today and post on here what my results are and if it fixed the problems. This is the best forum! Big thumbs up!

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:36 pm 
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I am going to explain this the best i can. When the engine temp. gauge gets up to the middle or vertical (usually only gets up that hot if the a/c is on) it seems to be when the check engine light comes on and it goes into 3rd gear limp mode. I drove it 30 miles one way today and the engine temp gauge never went over a 1/4 of the way so 45 degrees to the left and the check engine light was off and it ran and shifted just fine except for the first couple miles it shifted kind of hard with a clunk going into 3rd gear. So it seems the problem is still there.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:34 pm 
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2 years ago the tranny wiring burn on the EGR tube because the Chrysler mechanic forget to fix my wiring, I can't see but feel it with my hand. The wiring repair cost $600 in time $25 in parts and $75 in taxes...Next the transmission line disconnect from the OEM cooler the 25 December 2010 in the middle of nowhere...I barely get home and add some ATF+4, next summer (July 2011) my tranny die on me and I paid $1800 for a rebuilt one.

Since last month my tranny did similar thing like yours do, run well until in temp and then BOOM she past from 5 to 3 speed and we get no more signal on the scanner from the speed sensor. I project to change the complete wiring from the solenoid pack to the TCM to eliminate any more wiring "Guess". I just need the OEM part number and a good place to order the master wiring.

Get back with news ASAP next week...

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:25 pm 
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akwcrd - it won't help with your tranny issue but maybe the tranny cooler took care of that problem. What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that your OEM thermostat has failed "open" which bypasses coolant to the radiator essentially at start up hence the engine never reachs operating temperature. The classic symptom of this is the temp gauge, sending unit is screwed into the back of the tstat housing, sits at about 1/4-3/8 and won't rise to the proper postition unless ambient is pretty hot or you are running the AC. Back when my tstat had this problem at anything below 75F the gauge read 3/8s and between 80-95F I could force it up to 1/2 needle width left of dead vertical (correct position) only by AC use.

Solution is 1) install a new OEM tstat (IIRC about $125 with gasket - FYI use a 1/4" drive socket with at least a 6" 1/4" drive wobble extension to get over the exhaust "hump" to the invisible back bottom bolt) or 2) leave the current OEM tstat in place and install an inline (lots of chat on this and it seems to work ok but makes me nervous hence I took option 1)

I doubt the tstat has anything to do with the limp mode but...

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Last edited by papaindigo on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:58 pm 
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I'll buy a new tstat tomorrow, and replace it. Also thinking about adding an extra electric fan to the aux. Trans cooler I just added also to see if that helps too.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:10 am 
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Good on the tstat replace but before adding a fan for the tranny cooler have you done what I suggested in items 2 and 3 of my earlier post? IMHO making sure the existing systems are functioning properly should take priority over adding another fan but that's just my opinion. Checking those 2 items should not be all that hard or expensive if you have to go to a reliable AC shop.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:07 pm 
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A/c blows ice cold all of the time, condenser was clean and clear. Electric fan works on high and low only when a/c is on, I'm guessing that's the way it's supposed to be, so I figured it was ok. Driving it today it has been hit or miss with limp mode, with or without the ac.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Well then other than the tstat, which I don't think is related to limp, I'm out of ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:44 pm 
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I'm still having the same problems from the first original post I made. I also seen a CEL code that came on today but went back off, I think it was P0401 or something but I know it said something about the EGR not performing properly and caused it to go into limp mode. But I cleared it and after I restarted the jeep it was fine for a while but then the P0101 code came back and went to limp mode, along with p0700 and p0988 which have almost always been on but I am realizing those 2 codes do not cause it to be in limp mode just the other codes when they come on and off, and it also seems they don't come on until the engine temp is vertical on the cluster gauge.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd transmission (5-45 RFE) problem! PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:35 pm 
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So today I unplugged the MAF sensor and some other plug that is on the side of the air box maybe the (ORM?) and it threw some more codes but never went into limp mode after I did this even with the A/C, so if that helps with any clues, give me some ideas. I am just leaving these 2 plugs off so it is drivable now. I am supposed to drive from southwest ohio to northern New York next weekend, and as long as the jeep isn't going to go into limp mode I am taking it, b/c there is dirt roads and stuff up there and not to car friendly. That is why I was hoping it would be fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 crd limp mode problem! please help!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Now that's interesting. If I am reading you correctly you unplugged the MAF (mass air flow-called air flow sensor in parts manual) sensor (airbox top next to airbox to turbo hose) 53013733AB and the IAP (inlet air pressure) sensor 5101120AB (pressure sensor on side of airbox) which apparently disabled whatever system was causing your limp mode. That makes me wonder if the tranny limp mode cause is totally unrelated to the tranny systems, not that installing a tranny cooler should be considered a waste money or effort as extra tranny cooling is generally a good thing.

I'm by no means an expert on limp mode or electrical systems but I can suggest a few things to consider:
1. looking back over your string I don't see any mention of the age/condition of your battery. I mention that only because today's highly computerized vehicles do very strange things relative to sensors and system operation if the battery is the least bit weak. So even if the battery is relatively new a battery load test and alternator output test might be worth a look. On that same note a reminder that the timing belt needs doing in the near future if it has not already been done as you are getting near the 100k time to do that job.
2. pulling the MAF sensor will throw a CEL as long as it's unplugged and at the same time it will totally disable the EGR although why that would have anything to do with your limp mode is a question someone else will have to answer.
3. I don't have a clue if pulling the IAP sensor throws a CEL or what if anything it disables or if it has anything to do with your limp mode - how's that for being no help.
4. of course one or both of those sensors could be bad and that alone could cause a limp mode in which case simply replacing the sensor would do the trick but I don't know how to identify a bad sensor short of replacement.

Sorry not to be much help but you do have a new clue.

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