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 Post subject: Oil change idiots
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:48 pm 
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So I took my '05 liberty in for it's first oil change. The dealer said I had to bring it back in 3000 miles or 3 months. When I argued with them and said because it's not a gas engine the oil doesn't have to be changed as often they disagreed. Then they said if I didn't bring it back within their time period I would void my warrenty. Are they just playing me because I'm a girl or is this true. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Oil change idiots
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:51 pm 
Libertylady wrote:
So I took my '05 liberty in for it's first oil change. The dealer said I had to bring it back in 3000 miles or 3 months. When I argued with them and said because it's not a gas engine the oil doesn't have to be changed as often they disagreed. Then they said if I didn't bring it back within their time period I would void my warrenty. Are they just playing me because I'm a girl or is this true. :?:


They are big time playing you - but maybe because THEY are just plain uneducated on the CRD. My manual states 6,250 miles or 12,500 miles per oil change depending on driving habits. I'm on the severe schedule, so about every 6,000 miles is fine.

Get your user manual out and shove it in their face.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:53 pm 
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It could be uneducated on their part. It took 5 technicians and the shop manager to find the plug for my CRD when I bought it. I looked it up in the owners manual and found it before they did.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:04 pm 
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Libertylady wrote:
It could be uneducated on their part. It took 5 technicians and the shop manager to find the plug for my CRD when I bought it. I looked it up in the owners manual and found it before they did.


Ye gods! :shock: IMHO, if you can do without the free oil changes, I'd seriously recommend finding a different dealership to have it serviced at if there's another within a reasonable distance. If they're so clueless they can't even find the bloody drain plug..... :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:36 pm 
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This is a major problem in a lot of dealerships, they don't sell the diesel PU's as a rule and due to this have no diesel tech's on hand. Find a dealer that sells a lot of the Cummins eqipped 3/4 & 1 ton PU trucks and you will have trained diesel techs. This may mean you find a country or small town dealership or a dealer that also sell the 5 wheel rigs if you are in a metro dealer.

No matter how good the sales deal, the most important part of buying a car is checking out the parts & service of the dealer. I chedcked out dealers parts & service for every car I have ever bought to help elimanate these kind of problems. This practice has served me well over the last 30 to 35 years and it is even more important now days with all the major changes in both diesel & gas cars, the electronic's change alone in D/C cars has been very troubling to non computer friendly tech's and service reps. The StartScan System (CAN-II bus system that ties all systems togather) has been the cause of 3 techs leaving the local D/C dealer in the last year, they just could not come to grips with the changes that have come and is coming to cars future.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:56 pm 
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I would be more concerned that on the oil change they JUST DID that they did not use the correct oil....

But even on the gasoline engines now, the warranties do not require 3000 mile oil changes. 3000 mile OCI is excessive in *any* vehicle now that we have such high quality synthetic oils that last much longer.

But here is the deal.

With a good high quality CI-4 PLUS rated oil, you can easily go 25000 miles for OCI and be perfectly safe as far as oil condition. In fact if you had a supplimental oil filter you could probably go farther than that - as the limitation is more a factor of the contaminants in the oil than the oil breakdown.

But 25000 mile OCI will cause you LOTS of headache when it comes time to get a repair done. They will blame your long OCI and you will have to fight - which can be time consuming and costly. So there really is no point in pushing your OCI out that long to save a few $$$ on oil.

So in the REAL world, with a good high quality CI-4 PLUS rated oil, something like 10000 mile OCI would probably work fine since it is within the 6000 - 12000 mile window that the owners manual dictates.

I would not go over 12000 mile OCI ever - just so I would have less to fight the dealership or DC on. But I would not drop below 6000 mile OCI no matter what Jiffy Lube says on their TV ads. :)

3000 mile OCI is just wasteful.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:09 pm 
valkraider wrote:
I would be more concerned that on the oil change they JUST DID that they did not use the correct oil....

But even on the gasoline engines now, the warranties do not require 3000 mile oil changes. 3000 mile OCI is excessive in *any* vehicle now that we have such high quality synthetic oils that last much longer.

But here is the deal.

With a good high quality CI-4 PLUS rated oil, you can easily go 25000 miles for OCI and be perfectly safe as far as oil condition. In fact if you had a supplimental oil filter you could probably go farther than that - as the limitation is more a factor of the contaminants in the oil than the oil breakdown.

But 25000 mile OCI will cause you LOTS of headache when it comes time to get a repair done. They will blame your long OCI and you will have to fight - which can be time consuming and costly. So there really is no point in pushing your OCI out that long to save a few $$$ on oil.

So in the REAL world, with a good high quality CI-4 PLUS rated oil, something like 10000 mile OCI would probably work fine since it is within the 6000 - 12000 mile window that the owners manual dictates.

I would not go over 12000 mile OCI ever - just so I would have less to fight the dealership or DC on. But I would not drop below 6000 mile OCI no matter what Jiffy Lube says on their TV ads. :)

3000 mile OCI is just wasteful.


Just for your take on something, what do you think of the time intervals recommended? Used to be 3000 miles or 3 months. Is it now 6250 miles or 6 months? I drive 12-14k per year. I prefer to change just twice per year. Will I catch grief if the question ever comes up for warranty work?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:36 pm 
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alljeep wrote:
Just for your take on something, what do you think of the time intervals recommended? Used to be 3000 miles or 3 months. Is it now 6250 miles or 6 months? I drive 12-14k per year. I prefer to change just twice per year. Will I catch grief if the question ever comes up for warranty work?


Part of the "time" recomendation is that if you are not driving your vehicle enough to get the miles on it, you are probably not driving it enough to burn off deposits and the like.

If your engine does not warm up completely, your engine leaves deposits all over the place. Someone here will have more detailed information - but there are issues with condensation and deposits that if the vehicle is not driven will cause build-up in the oil.

Newer more modern oils have additives to help deal with this, and problems like moisture or acidity. Again, one of our mechanic or engineer types will know more.

This is why you want to change your oil before any long term storage, to get clean oil in the system before it sits on parts for a long time...

But to answer your question, if you drive 12 to 14 thousand miles a year you would be fine using the mileage interval. The time interval would be for someone who is unlikely to make the mileage interval during the timeframe.

Say if you only drove 6000 miles a year, you are not driving enough to keep your oil circulating and your engine burning off deposits regularly - so you should follow the time frame.

I think they consider 12,000 miles a year average mileage on a vehicle now...

What you might want to think about is your style of driving. If you are driving that 12-14 in all short trips where the engine has not long to warm up completely - you might want to keep your OCI around the 6k mark - which twice a year would meet for you...

The 3/3000 numbers were really only for older conventional oils with lower ratings... And then it was pushed by the oil change companies as that is how they make money... They make no money if you don't come in..

But also worth noting is that car manufacturers are under pressure to gain sales. Part of the sales equation is an appeared ease of ownership. If they can say "Hey - you only need to change your oil once every 12,000 miles" that is a good selling point over a vehicle that requires every 5000 miles... Car companies know that the average American owner keeps a car about three years. And most powertrain warranties are three to five years.

So they could, to sell more cars, say that you never need to change your oil. Chances are that you would see no major problems in three years or even five years. But you WOULD be doing major damage to your engine, which when all their cars fail after 5 years it would be bad press.

So they try and balance the sales material of easy ownership with the press of longivity and reliability. That is where they use bean-counetrs to figure out the recommended OCI.

You will almost always find that a dealership will recommend shorter intervals. They want you to spend your $$$ there.

The real world answer is not set in stone. First, you do not want to make things hard on yourself and cause fights with dealerships and car companies. But you also don't need to go overboard and drain out perfectly good oil way too soon...

Which is why I say - even though you CAN go for long intervals, it may be easier in the long run to use a middle of the road interval. Short intervals are just excessive and a hassle...

But this is all just my opinion based on reading way way too much.... :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:11 pm 
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Just drive it and get it changed every 6250 miles. Thats what the book says. If they say anything to you show them the book and ask them if they can read?? If they threaten you again I would talk to the owner of the dealership. Thats just flat out bad business.

Wes

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:50 pm 
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Call me old fashion:
First oil change at 3000 miles, this gets most of the left over crud and innital break-in debree out of the engine.

Second oil change at 6000 miles, just because engine still breaking in.

Third oil change at 12000 miles. at this point the engine should be mostly broken in or very close to it.

Fourth- til death, every 12000 miles.


I see this ending up as like an oil war topic :(

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 Post subject: oil chanve interval
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:05 pm 
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I used to work for a very large oil company.

I had a company car and we were instructed to push oil change intervals very far.

With the synthetic oil, all these interval discussions are moot.

With PCMO, (passenger car motor oil), 3k oil changes are very profitable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:19 am 
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Might be a little more money but you might try a Mercedes Benz dealer also. The E-Klasse came witha 2.7 and 3.2 CDi motor and the techs there should have the CDi certificates. Just a option.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:28 am 
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Hadn't thought about the MB dealer, but you would run into a problem with any software glitches the CRD is OBD-II and not StarScan. I would think they don't have the access to the same downdoads unless they have sell Jeep or Dodge.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:28 am 
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My dealer told me (last September) they had to pay to send their diesel techs to Jeep CRD school before DC would allow them to even take shipment of a CRD. When I was shopping for mine, I called 5 dealers in the area. 3 out of the 5 told me they didn't sell the CRD model, one replied "a diesel in a Jeep, never heard of such a thing." One dealer even told me it cost too much to train a CRD tech and risk loosing them so they aren't going to sell the CRD. If you still have your window sticker, check to see if this CRD was a transfer/swap from another dealer.[/quote]

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 Post subject: uneducated techs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:41 am 
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The dealer from whom I bought my CRD is a 5-star dealer, sold (at least) 4 CRD's last year including mine, and evidently did send a tech to CRD school, although he did not know that the fuel injectors were in the head, not the manifold, and that there is no throttle plate on a diesel.

And yes, service people insisting that the warranty will be voided by not changing the oil every 3,000 miles is an attempt to jerk you around. Legally, they are bound by what it says in the owner's manual, not by any verbalizations they make to you or old lore and myth related by Crusty, the shop's resident geezer. And MY owner's manual says 6,250 miles or 12,500 miles, depending upon how the vehicle is used.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Your not alone, a DC dealer, not the one I bought the rig from, keeps sending me service reminders for my CRD, the first was for 9,000 the last was for 15,000 miles.
I don't think I want to go there.

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