'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:34 pm

I just bought my first Liberty from a (SCUMBAG) dealership in Seattle. They said that the check engine light was because of a loose sensor on the air box. I wish. I had an actual Jeep dealership in Everett install a new EGR cooler before shipping it to me. As of right now, it is waiting for me to decide what to do next. I have had most of the plastic intake parts off and have discovered a few things. Here's what I know:

1) There is A LOT of oil in the intake everywhere down stream of the CCV hose on the main turbo inlet hose. I have been reading about the CCV for a couple of days, and I know that there is "supposed to be" oil in there, but how much is reasonable? There is also somewhat fresh looking black oil around the CCV "hockey puck".

2) The turbo does spin smoothly. I can turn the compressor wheel with my fingers, and there isn't any noticeable amount of radial play in it. There is quite a bit of oil around both the inlet an outlet of the compressor housing. The turbine housing doesn't have any noticeable amount of seepage inside or out. It looks dry. I have started the Jeep without the air cleaner hose on and verified that the compressor wheel does spin. Does it spin freely or fast enough? No idea. I have a "new" (drove 3 miles I am told) OEM turbo on my kitchen counter that I bought because the dealer strongly suspected that the turbo has gone bad. I had my wife drive the Jeep around the block and I did hear a normal sounding turbo whine.

3) The engine seems to run really rough. I have scarcely heard one of these things run before anyway, but I almost feel like maybe a cylinder is missing or something. As my subject suggests, the thing smokes A LOT!!! It is all black smoke.

4) The engine is as stock as the day it was built. No elephant hoses or unplugged sensors.

Here's what I suspect:

1) The CCV "hockey puck" is bad somehow. I don't know anything about how that thing works. I have found ZERO for sale anywhere that I have looked online.

2) The waste gate is stuck or malfunctioning. Maybe the controller for it is bad...? Is that the gaggle of hose, plastic and whatnot on the right fender? What is that thing anyway?

3) Maybe the turbo itself has gone bad as the dealership suggested. Not sure if it would be a problem with the bearings. Are these journal or ball bearing? maybe it is a problem with a seal of some sort? If I do end up swapping the unit out, will cut out gaskets work?

If there is any blinding insight out there, HIT ME OVER THE HEAD WITH IT!!! :dizzy:

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Welcome to the forum.

I hope you checked up on Sam's noob guide. Lots of helpful information in there.

Our turbos are not wastegated. We have Variable Vanes which control the turbo boost. I have read that there is a way to test to make sure that it is working.

Is your CEL light on? Any codes that she is throwing would help.

How are the Intercooler AKA CAC hoses? Any signs of cracking or splitting?

Hope we can get your little tractor back up and running like she should be.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:47 pm

Read the NOOB guide. Well, most of it. I haven't been into all of the elective links. It was pretty informative. I tried to do a mini elephant hose mod. I was wondering if there was an extensive amount of oil coming out of the hockey puck so I plugged the hose going to the intake, and wadded a rag up over the puck. My wife took the Jeep around the block (I was waaay too dirty for her to let me drive it). It still smoked like crazy. I didn't expect it to do anything different, but I was hoping to see something on that rag. Nothing there when she got back. As for engine codes, I am not yet sure how to check em. The CAC hoses are intact. With as much oil is going through them, any breaks would be pretty obvious. The dealership said that they fogged the intake with pressurized haze to check for leaks. They said it was good. I know the hoses will need replacing later because the oil attacks them, but for today they will have to work. The CEL is in and has been the whole time. The code I remember was a "low boost" code.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:57 am

How many miles on your CRD?
I am a new CRD owner too, little over a month now, but I've owned several diesels (with Bosch VE pumps) since 1981.

Excessive black smoke, and sputtering. 1st thing I'd check (from reading this forum & others) is the fuel filter. The original & defective one, the 2 electrical ports on the front are about equal in size. Problem...was the heater when on was too hot, melted the fitting and this allowed air into the fuel system. IF yours have a filter assembly BUT the RIGHT side electrical port is MUCH bigger than the left one, you have the new, up-graded filter. There's a dealership out of Texas on ebay, right now, selling the upgraded kit for $108, excellent price. If you have the old filter housing, you could temporarily "fix" this air leak buy pulling the right connector and thoroughly stuffing the plug receptacle with silicon sealant and allowing it to dry. What happens here is air gets sucked into the area right around the electrical prongs and introduced into the common rail. If you have the old one, may as well unplug it anyway because it's just a matter of time before melts & fails. Get the upgrade !

Now , if you have the new filter, the next place to look is the oil volume on the stick. With a full oil change w/ standard size filter the volume is 6.3 qt. (by the book) this quantity puts the level at about the low level on the stick. In order for it to be at the MAX line, 7+ quarts are required. This volume might cause excessive oil in the breather (hockey puck) system.

Until you get this smoke issue resolved, I'd unplug the MAF sensor on the air box hose. This will close off the EGR valve and prevent soot getting into the air mix for the intake manifold. You will get a CEL because of this though.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:17 pm

It has about 125k on it. The right hand connector is about the same physical size as the left one. Two green wires? FWIW it doesn't smell like fuel inside the plug. I am gonna have to look into the upgrade once I regenerate my cash stash a little bit. Will it hurt anything to leave the R/H plug undone? Good to know about the oil level. I had decided to swap the turbo, so I got it most of the way off. I say most because the 3rd exhaust manifold nut broke off with part of the stud still in it, and the 4th stripped out about a 1/4 inch from the end. Now the nut just spins and spins without coming off.

This was all at about midnight last night. With work in the morning looming I figured the Jeep had won this one. This is about the time that I tripped over the power cable on my welder and ripped it out of the machine... :banghead:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:12 pm

1. See NOOB guide video on fuel head bleeding for picture of 2n gen fuel head.
2. Smoke and low boost code (what was code #) - have you pulled the intercooler hoses off the vehicle, removed hose cover if any, and inspected? If not do so leaks are virtually always on bottom. While off check airbox to turbo hose for tear on bottom just in front of turbo.
3. 6.3/7qts - stock/large oil filter - no more regardless of dipstick reading. Excess simply blows thru CCV into turbo and hoses.
4. Are you absolutely positive, preferably work order receipt in hand, that timing belt job was done ca. at 100,000 miles and that the engine is currently in time? Assurance that the TB was "checked" and "it's ok" is to put it bluntly a LIE
5. I am virtually positive your turbo is not "about" to fail. The turbo effectively has 2 moving parts - 1 the "fan" and 2 the variable vanes. The vanes don't "fail" although they can stick (unsticking can generally be done by an Italian tune-up) or the vacuum mechanism that controls them can have problems (ex the solenoid goes bad - can be bypassed and if problem goes away simply replace solenoid). "Fan" spins at extremely high speed on bronze sleeve bearing on a film of oil; fore/aft slight play is ok; lateral play should be virtually none as any lateral plat allows fan blades to contact housing producing loud bad noises leading shortly (very few miles) to catastrophic turbo death which can starve #1 cylinder of oil. Point being turbo generally works until it blows up.

Turbo removal. Been there done that installing GDE Stage 2 turbo. Those OEM manifold bolts are to be blunt cr*p. Removal requires LOTS of penetrating oil, time for that oil to work and if the bolt breaks or even if it doesn't lots of heat. Short version, we left the 1 OEM stud we did not break in the intake; the other 3 were various levels of you know what to remove. For replacement use grade 5 (I lean toward grade 8 but Keith at GDE thinks they might not work given the heat in that location)

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:21 pm

wodmeup wrote:

Will it hurt anything to leave the R/H plug undone? :banghead:

No. That's exactly what I have done to mine and I did notice that on the plug end one port is discolored (burnt) from heat. I have my new one and will install it before winter. The heater is only necessary at very low temps, say less than 32*F. Diesel fuels are "winterized" at the proper time by the refineries.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:45 pm

wodmeup wrote:

Will it hurt anything to leave the R/H plug undone? :banghead:

Maybe.

unplugging will prevent future damage from overheating with an air bubble in the fuel head.
however - it won't stop air from leaking in - if there' already damage there

it is a vacuum system - if you unplug it - make sure you have something sealing it.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:56 am

Update: I got the old turbo off, and the new one on. There was enough stud left after I Dremmeled the nut off to use responsibly. I have got the whole affair back together and running. The "new" turbo makes quite the sound when the engine is idling. It sounds something like cowboy spurs and screeching. Killed the motor relatively quickly, but not before I noticed one thing. I put my fingers flatly over the compressor inlet and noticed a very distinct vacuum. The old turbo had nothing there when I did the same thing. I pulled a vacuum on the old actuator on the junk turbo, and it moved with much less vacuum than did the "new" one. I have emailed the eBay seller about this new turbo, and I am supposed to call him tomorrow. I guess I will be updating again soon. I think my next move will be checking for good oil flow at the banjo bolt on top of the turbo.

As for the fuel filter, I looked in the NOOB guide, and the one pictured looks like mine to me. I think mine looks kinda cleanish too. I am wondering if it has been replaced with the upgrade. Any advice?

The timing belt was replaced as we bought the Jeep. I told the aforementioned scumbag dealer that I wasn't even interested in the truck without that belt being new. We had a separate shop do the work because we didn't trust Duder. We have receipts.

Lastly, please explain "Italian tune-up" for me. I am thinking we are talking about a couple of hot laps around the neighborhood.

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:45 am

Ah the Italian tune up, is run the engine hard as if you're making a getaway i.e. high speed chase :evil:

I guess the theory being, it'll clear out the muck. Your pictures look like you've already got the second generation fuel head.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:19 pm

I got everything put back together again. The turbo is getting plenty of oil, but it still clatters. Do these things wear in or anything like that? Also, do these motors run if the timing is one tooth off? The Jeep sputters and misses when I drive it, and it never seems to produce any real power. It still smokes like MAD when I give it any throttle. Also noticed that the engine knocks above 2k rpm. Could there be something to this timing theory?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm

You got sold a junk "rebuilt" turbo by a scammer on Ebay. The turbo you took out was working just fine, and that "suction" you felt was from the engine breathing, not from anything the turbo was being told to do.

The turbo SHOULD NOT MAKE ANY NOISES AT IDLE!!!!!!!!

This cannot be said enough. Sorry, but you are about to dig back into the job and re-swap your turbo. The vacuum actuator SHOULD move easily, that is correct. Bad noises at idle indicate metal on metal contact, which equals turbo death in short order - this thing is supposed to spin at 100,000 rpm at full speed, --ANY-- odd play or noises means it is not working properly, and you are risking your engine by messing with that turbo.

sacax · **Joined:** Sun May 20, 2012 7:35 am **Posts:** 48

hi!

i would only like to add that my CRD is throwing a lot of smoke when i hit the gas... it has 150k on it and its very normal... i would not worry about it... and yes, it does sound like a tractor

, and i love it!

the turbo is supposed to make noise when driving and when hitting the gas, some say actually that one should not drive under a certain RPM (1,500)... supposedly it can affect the well functioning of the turbo... but i will let the experienced guys confirm it or not...

thanks!

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:23 pm

Sorry, NO. Smoking continuously is NOT CORRECT either, and if it throws "lots" of smoke when you stomp on it, then you are over fueling for some reason. It also may be that you have lifter problems, it would seem that lifters are a wear item on this engine (This is still subject to more research) but my CRD with 134k miles on it did not smoke before the lifters started having issues recently. "lots of smoke" is usually an indicator of either a clogged MAP sensor (Noob guide for cleaning) or boost hoses that might not have a gaping hole, but they are very soft and porous, and you are loosing boost right through the sides of the hoses. If your hoses are "growing hair" from all the filth on the outside of them, that is an indication that they are rapidly deteriorating and on the way out. SAMCO hoses are a good replacement.

The only noise you should be hearing from the turbo is a smooth high pitched whistle, and maybe not even that. Anything uneven or "jingly" is not normal, anything scratchy is not normal. Anything Whoosh related indicates that you have a boost leak somewhere (usually underneath one of the two boost hoses, they have to be REMOVED to properly check them)

wodmeup · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:57 pm

From the sounds of it, I will be returning the turbo. It still makes that spur like noise. It is pretty obviously the compressor wheel hitting the housing. I have tried letting it idle for a moment, high idling, easy driving, and even the Italian tune-up, all to no avail. Does anyone have any experience with re-manufactured Garrett units? $729 and free shipping sounds waaay better than the $2K+ that the dealership wanted. I really think the original turbo is junk. It didn't pull any vacuum, and it does make some ugly noises of its own. I did finally manage to hear a whine, but it was very faint. I only heard it as I let off of a heavy push on the coal pedal. Checking the MAP sensor is very first on my list when I get home. I REALLY want it to be completely coated in nastiness and in sore need of a cleaning... NOOB guide says non-chlorinated brake pars cleaner is safe enough?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:38 am

Garrett DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ANY REBUILDING of their turbos for these. As far as I am aware, that goes for all VNT style turbos, because of the way they need to be calibrated.

At the same time, you do not need to go to the dealer for these. Frankly, the less you visit the dealer about your CRD, the better! Look around for your local Bosch fuel injector testing facility. In many cases, this business will also be a Garrett distributor, and can source you a new turbo for CONSIDERABLY less than the highway robbery of the dealer. The last time I asked at my own Bosch injector place, they found one in Brazil (the closest at that time) for $1080. That was my cost, retail, out the door. Another member here was able to source one from his Bosch shop for $1145 or so, maybe a few bucks more.

Is a difference of a few hundred dollars worth the risk of your engine and an $8000 repair if the "new" turbo isn't, and fails out? If your turbo lets go at speed and starts leaking oil into the exhaust, you have only SECONDS to figure out what happened, put the transmission in neutral (even while moving highway speed, this is OK) and shut your engine off. The transmission MUST be in neutral, or it will continue to spin the engine and the oil pump. Your oil pump will drain the engine in about 20-30 seconds, but at the same time, all the pressure is leaking out at the turbo, and NOT feeding the tiny passages that lubricate and cool the crankshaft rod bearings. This is what killed my engine.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:32 am

PM sent.

Hoosier CRD

sacax · **Joined:** Sun May 20, 2012 7:35 am **Posts:** 48

well, lots of smoke means that i can see it in the rear mirror if i am flooring the gas pedal...and this is what any diesel does... new or old... and my kj does it since day one and never had a problem with it... i will check the hoses just to be sure anyway, MAP sensor is cleaned (did it 3,000 km ago)...
some of the turbos do actually whistle when over a certain rpm... the liberty does not... i was just saying that if its an aftermarket one, could make that sound (which does not mean its broken)...

thanks

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:32 am

My original 05 did not smoke much on acceleration but my replacement 05 did and had smoke "stain" on rear bumper by exhaust. GDE tune took care of smoke and soap took care of "stain". On both the OEM turbo exhibited a low "whistle" (hard to hear) up to about 30 mph until engine warmed up. Don't recall a "whistle" from GDE Stage II turbo

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:58 pm

uummhh........ if anyone notices sacax's signature - he's running an 2002 2.5L
that has different turbo, and dramatically different emissions controls

similar to some of the older diesel trucks around here -
I don't think it would be at all unusual for it to smoke on acceleration

'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

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