'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:46 am

kjjet wrote:

What i did was remove the EGR pipe at the exhaust manifold and the EGR. With it removed from the engine i cut it one inch long at the manifold side and had it welded shut and installed the little one inch pipe. The only other plug needed is at the intake elbo. I made a small disk to fit under the original clamp.

Geordi, So when you said that the plugs are ugly, you weren't kidding. Ugly as they may be, they sure are beautiful. I am going to install them tomorrow morning, and I will have news by tomorrow night. (I hope.) *fingers crossed*

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:43 am

wodmeup wrote:

Geordi, So when you said that the plugs are ugly, you weren't kidding. Ugly as they may be, they sure are beautiful. I am going to install them tomorrow morning, and I will have news by tomorrow night. (I hope.) *fingers crossed*

Glad they survived the trip, did the envelope? I was a bit nervous about that, it was the only thing that postal center had to use... I would have preferred a small box.
You like that welding job then? Lol... Yea, not my prettiest welding, but I didn't want to melt that thin wall with too much heat, and was going more for just filling the gaps. Hey, they work. :mrgreen:

Good luck with them!

wodmeup · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:08 pm

geordi wrote:

Glad they survived the trip, did the envelope? I was a bit nervous about that, it was the only thing that postal center had to use... I would have preferred a small box.
You like that welding job then? Lol... Yea, not my prettiest welding, but I didn't want to melt that thin wall with too much heat, and was going more for just filling the gaps. Hey, they work. :mrgreen:

Good luck with them!

They made it here in great shape. The WD didn't care for the aroma of smoke coming out of it, but once they (and I) were banished to the garage, they fit into place nicely. You can see one in the photo of the FCV's neutered state. (For those who may be wondering.) The first photo is of my solution for the CCV's oil control problem.

I am still battling this thing. The turbo still screams so loudly that occupants can barely talk over the racket it makes. I am sending it in to Pure Turbos in Oceanside CA (eBay seller) to see what the deal is. I checked that I had oil to the turbo before running the thing. I loosened the banjo bolt and verified that the awful black paint like substance I may have mistaken for oil was in fact "going everywhere". How much oil should I see if I just loosen the bolt? It was a steady but quick oozing. The only thing I can compare it to is the last time I cut a finger VERY badly... :lol:

Also, how does that drain tube come out of the engine block? Does it just pull out?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 am

The oil feed line to the turbo bolts to the main oil gallery for the engine and feeds oil under pressure to the turbo. I wouldn't do it on a running engine but if you did and just cracked the bolt(s) on that line a tiny bit I imagine it would flow a bit of oil like you describe. The hard pipe return line is just pushed into the block with a rubber grommet to "seal" the hole and feeds return oil by gravity I suppose back into the lower part of the engine and hence to the oil pan.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:16 pm

Finally, at long last, I received the warranty turbo in the mail. I put it on today. The Jeep still doesn't run right. It does run better (I think). It still knocks pretty badly at full throttle. It also still smokes profusely, but not quite as much and not through the entire rpm range. If I rev the engine from idle it smokes. I think it has more power than it did before, but I haven't driven it in a while. I am wondering what this little module is that seems to have the Variable Vane Turbo line coming out of it. If anyone out there has any ideas at all, please let me know. We are about a week away from selling this thing for whatever we can get because we NEED a vehicle that runs. :cry:

jlgail4309 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:27 pm

Boost pressure Actuator
any cel codes coming up now

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:09 pm

I am sure there are a whole list of codes. I had them read by Autozone, but my sister would be just as knowledgeable as the college kid using the beat up scan tool. I remember a low boost code being a recurring code. I am sure the EGR code is on there, but that's because I took the whole system off. Is the boost pressure actuator the vacuum pot on the turbo itself? And what is this mess of Chrysler all over the right fender by the power steering reservoir? You know. The little vacuum hose from the turbo goes into it? How much of this thing needs to be replaced when things go south?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:36 pm

wodmeup wrote:

I am sure there are a whole list of codes. I had them read by Autozone, but my sister would be just as knowledgeable as the college kid using the beat up scan tool. I remember a low boost code being a recurring code. I am sure the EGR code is on there, but that's because I took the whole system off. Is the boost pressure actuator the vacuum pot on the turbo itself? And what is this mess of Chrysler all over the right fender by the power steering reservoir? You know. The little vacuum hose from the turbo goes into it? How much of this thing needs to be replaced when things go south?

That "mess of Chrysler" (I like that term btw) is the vacuum storage box and the vacuum modulator for the turbo. The supply comes from elsewhere in the abyss in there, but connects to the smaller of the two electrically-enabled widgets. This seems to be the one that fails out the most, reducing the available vacuum to the box and the turbo controller. The important one is the other electrical widget, with the paper filter stuck on the bottom.

FOR TESTING AND DIAGNOSIS: trace the rubber hoses backwards from the turbo vacuum motor. The vac motor connects to the outlet of the vac controller. The inlet of the vac controller connects to the vacuum storage box. The storage box is just what it sounds like, nothing special... But I guess it could be cracked and leaking vacuum. The other port on the box connects to the outlet of the vac supply solenoid (parts books sometimes call THIS the 'vacuum modulator' but it is little more than an electric valve) and finally, the supply line connects to the inlet of the vac supply solenoid.

I would start by bypassing everything, connect the vacuum supply directly to the vacuum controller inlet, or to the vacuum storage box. This will guarantee a suitable supply of vacuum to the turbo's modulator (the controller with the paper filter) and hopefully show you better performance.

Your description of operation still sounds like low boost. Smoke only happens with too much fuel and not enough air... So unless your boost hoses have holes (they don't, RIGHT???) then the vacuum supply is the next logical place to look.

Clattering engine under WOT is also an indication (with smoke present) of low boost. Without smoke, loud clattering is VERY VERY BAD.

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wodmeup · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:10 am

Geordi,
I had just a few minutes after the show to monkey with it a bit. I took a photo of the module before messing around with it to make sure I put everything back where it should be.

What I've done is unplug the inlet of the vac controller (center of round top) and also the rear of the two hoses on the box (pictured right). I then plugged the rear hose from the box onto the center port of the round controller. This hose runs up to the firewall to parts unknown. Is it headed to the solenoid I have been reading about? Where does it go? The Jeep has more power now, especially off of idle. It can keep up with traffic but it still has that nasty knock at 3000 rpm on the nose. I wish I had a boost gauge...

I am ashamed to admit that my CAC hoses are shedding their outer layers only to expose the inner wound core. How much of an issue are these things in reality? If I order the set could I be looking at a possible miracle cure? Between that and possibly needing new turbo actuator parts, I think we might have enough to go on for the next step of this onslaught.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:16 am

Email me if you want a writeup and pictures on boost pressure solenoid test. You might want to also look at Topan's melted hose post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61240.

On the boost pressure solenoid test based on your picture:
1. unplug the upper end of the hose running from the right front to the top left port on the round topped (has blue item on right side) thing in the upper right.
2. remove line from center of the part on the left (has filter hanging on bottom and skinney hard plastic vacuum line attached on top left).
3. plug end of hose removed in step 1 to port opened by hose removal in step 2.
This will throw a CEL if one is not already present but if problem goes away order a new solenoid (4606226AC). You can drive the vehicle this way until the new solenoid is installed but it takes 2-10 seconds after startup for the engine to pull enough vacuum to move the turbo vanes.

Sounds to me like your CAC hoses are way past shot. If there is ANY boost leakage out of those hoses you will be down on power and smoking.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:23 am

wodmeup wrote:

I am ashamed to admit that my CAC hoses are shedding their outer layers only to expose the inner wound core. How much of an issue are these things in reality? If I order the set could I be looking at a possible miracle cure? Between that and possibly needing new turbo actuator parts, I think we might have enough to go on for the next step of this onslaught.

Seriously????? After all the conversations on here about how the oil is forced THROUGH the walls of the hose to make it porous and rot it out from the inside... You are asking this?
<Lord_Vader> I find your lack of boost disturbing. </Vader>

YES, those hoses are WAY BEYOND shot! Get rid of them, they are probably coating your engine bay in sprayed filth every time you stomp on the go pedal.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:47 am

Your hoses sound worst than mine. I got new ones just because mine are weeping oil. I ordered a set of Samcos to put on when the Jeep is all back together. I showed them to Corey from IDParts and he is considering ordering them. I would consider ordering something, yesterday...if not sooner.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:17 am

when hearing thundering hooves in North America, look for horses, not zebras.
In Africa, the reverse.

In other words, best to look for the simple common problems first.

Suggested solutions:

1) new hoses, and clean the pipes;
2)do VGT actuator check. If you haven't got sufficient movement, then you have a turbo problem. Given a new turbo, which can be assumed for initial eval as functional, this means lack of vacuum; proceed with vacuum checks.
3) If actuator checks OK, then you may have obstructed airways; there are some phenomenal photos here of crap building up in the airways. I would check the easy to remove stuff first and then get into things like the intercooler.

Good luck!

wodmeup · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:51 pm

geordi wrote:

wodmeup wrote:

I am ashamed to admit that my CAC hoses are shedding their outer layers only to expose the inner wound core. How much of an issue are these things in reality? If I order the set could I be looking at a possible miracle cure? Between that and possibly needing new turbo actuator parts, I think we might have enough to go on for the next step of this onslaught.

Seriously????? After all the conversations on here about how the oil is forced THROUGH the walls of the hose to make it porous and rot it out from the inside... You are asking this?
<Lord_Vader> I find your lack of boost disturbing. </Vader>

YES, those hoses are WAY BEYOND shot! Get rid of them, they are probably coating your engine bay in sprayed filth every time you stomp on the go pedal.

To be honest, it was all the talk about the oil seeping out of hoses that had me thinking maybe I could get away with not spending the $300 on Samcos right away. I was financially hemorrhaging at that point, and I was kinda hoping to get away with using the factory junk until I at least had a plate on this thing. If I had seen any indication of oil seepage on the outside of the hoses, they would have been dumpstered weeks ago. But for as completely soaked as the factory hoses were on the inside, I would have thought that any leaks would have been apparent. They are both still bone dry from end to end on the outside. I have some blue Samcos on order now. The other suspect is this pile of hoses and plastic on the right fender. Can someone educate me about what I am looking at here?

What are the units that have numbers on them called? I think one of them is the solenoid, but I'm not sure. papaindigo's suggested bypass is in this photo (provided I put the right hoses in the right places...). Did I do this right?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:43 pm

Yea, that bypass looks right. You want to bypass the thing with the blue protrusion on it, that is the vacuum solenoid, and you have bypassed it correctly here.

If your boost hoses were degraded to the point that the webbing was visible and the wall of the hose wasn't present... The lack of oil on the outside isn't your problem - The AIR has an easy pathway out through even microscopic pores. Have lots of pores, you have lots of leak.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:56 pm

I honestly don't know if that's the right bypass method but it's not the one from the old post (finally found it but the picture is gone - EDIT but I was able to repost it below from my notes on the original post) and GDE comments on that post implies the old post has the correct bypass and I've checked my old vacuum assembly (goes with my old "surplus" turbo) and the picture matches GDE's instructions, included below. I think what you have done is hook the INPUT (not the OUTPUT) from the black plastic vacuum reservoir to the "VAC" port on the turbo EVM but whether or not that will do the same thing as hooking the reservoir OUTPUTto the "VAC" port I have no clue. UPDATE - not happy with PhotoBucket so went to ImageShack and can actually get pictures to appear on the forum

My notes say Failure of the vacuum reservoir solenoid (a.k.a. solenoid secondary runner valve per the parts fiche PN(PN 4606226AC) ) can produce several MIL/CEL codes and result is turbo boost problems. A temporary solution and diagnosis is to bypass that solenoid by rerouting vacuum lines as in the picture below:

by disconnecting the little hose from where the red arrow is and replugged it where the yellow arrow is (VAC port). If that solves the problem then leave the hoses in the new/temporary configuration and order a replacement solenoid. In the interim the vehicle may be driven; the CEL will remain until you replace the on/off solenoid. The only benefit that part provides is overnight storage of vacuum in the plastic reservoir so the turbo has vacuum immediately during the start. Without it you have a 2-10 second wait before the engine vacuum pump evacs the lines enough for the turbo vanes to move. Once the replacement solenoid is installed put the hose(s) back the way they were originally.

GDE's writeup for this says "By-passing of the on/off solenoid is very straight forward. Trace the vacuum line output from the black plastic reservoir to the input of the on/off solenoid. Remove this vacuum line and plug it directly into the turbo EVM on the port labeled "VAC". The turbo EVM is the one with the blue rubber isolator and vacuum line running directly to turbo."

Also you should probably trace back along the vacuum input line to the reservoir for a melted vacuum line as in topan's post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61240

As to the numbered items in your picture I think they are as follows
1 = EVM (electric vacuum modulator)
2 = vacuum reservoir solenoid
3 = vacuum reservoir

Absent a picture I still think your CAC hoses are shot and leaking air hence killing boost.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:09 am

papaindigo wrote:

Absent a picture I still think your CAC hoses are shot and leaking air hence killing boost.

Sadly, even if they were, they hadn't been leaking the way we would have hoped. I got the Samco's in the mail last Friday. Good looking set though if I do say so myself.

I got the chafing guard wormed onto the right side hose, but the left side wanted absolutely no part of it. I also noticed the turbo intake hose had this split in it. This split shouldn't affect the engine running should it?

The new right side hose sticks up a bit higher than the original one did. I routed it over the A/C lines instead of under (like this).

By the time I got it all put back together, I really wasn't sure if the Jeep was running any better or not. I went ahead and got the solenoid and actuator on order from factorychryslerparts.com because I do know that the problem isn't fixed. If anybody has any more ideas, I am all ears. We still need this thing like crazy.

jamesdart · **Joined:** Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:41 pm **Posts:** 53

no updates?

Bama KJ · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:28 am **Posts:** 12

wodmeup wrote:

So we all enjoy photos of carnage... But I keep in mind that they are always at someone's expense. :lol:

I will be very interested to see how well your intended repairs work out.

I went to the FLAPS today and picked up my elephant hose. I also noticed that my band clamp for the exhaust manifold is all sorts of jacked up. As I was walking out, I noticed this very satisfying pile of parts. So for all those wondering about how this junk looks in broad daylight...

Here is what i did on my egr. just half to do the rest like you and remove all of that crap.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:10 pm

Does anyone know if the EVM is supposed to bleed vacuum all the time through the little filter? Did the bypass test while the engine was off and noticed I heard vacuum being sucked into the filter very slowly. I started the engine and let the vacuum build back up, shut the motor off, turned the key back to on and the vacuum being sucked into the filter became a lot faster. Could this be the cause of my occasional P0299 code? I have checked everything else, boost hoses, vacuum lines, turbo diaphragm rod movement with a Mityvac, all seems to be well. Motor runs great, no visible black smoke, code usually sets when at idle.. :banghead:

Thoughts appreciated

'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

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