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 Post subject: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:06 am 
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Location: Allentown, PA
I'm about ready to take the CRD in for the 100,000 timing belt change. What other items should I replace while in for service? Usually in my old vehicles the water pump would get the old heave-ho in favor of a new one at this time, I'm assuming the same here but anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:01 am 
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In my excitement and after looking at the first 5 pages of the forum I realized my answer can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47123

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:51 pm
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Location: SE Michigan
A few weeks ago I had the water pump, timing belt, serpentine belt and serpentine tensioner replaced. I asked that the timing belt pulleys and timing belt tensioner be replaced too, but the dealership claimed they were fine and not in need of replacement. I really wish they would have replaced those items. Keith at GDE told me the pulleys really should have come out as they are plastic.

The Serpentine tensioner really seemed to help with noise from my Jeep as I no longer have a little chirping noise... I guess that could have come from my water pump, but I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:23 pm 
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The survey on the board indicated among those that responded that the wp lasted about 170-180k.
I did the Sir Sam #2 service, just the timing belt pulleys and tensioner along with the serp and it's pulleys


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:06 pm 
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The dealership probably wasn't wrong about the tensioner or idler pulley bearings being OK. In all the timing belt jobs I've done so far, the only times those pulleys have been replaced, is when the owner is right there with the new ones, and each have said "it doesn't look like they need to, but we have the new ones here anyway."

The bearings in the idlers are the same as in the serpentine idlers, and the same bearings that Mopar has used in just about every other engine for years. The ONLY ONE that I've ever had fail out on one of my vehicles, had over 250k miles on it. The others (on the same engine) are still spinning along. Add to that the other vehicles my family has had that have all exceeded 200k miles... These things are pretty reliable.

The failure mode of one of these (same for the tensioner or the water pump pulley) is that the bearing will eject its grease and the outside will become filthy (NOT just dry-dusty, that is only belt dust) before the bearing really starts to wear. Once the grease is ejected, soon after, the bearing will start to howl. This is hard to miss, but if you do, then it will start to make grumbling grinding sounds as the bearings are REALLY chewed up... Finally, once that is worn down sufficiently, the pulley will be able to shift around and fall off - bad things can happen at this point, but you have missed a LOT of warning signs.

Barring catastrophic shaft failure on the water pump (I'm STILL not sure how that happened to one member here) the water pump will simply start leaking once the seal goes. It will be a slow weep, and your first indication will probably be the low coolant light on the dash. Top it off - it returns... You have a slow leak.

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Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

It may be that the purpose of my CRD is to serve as a warning to others...


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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Location: SE Michigan
Thanks geordi.

Hearing your track record makes me feel better. I figured they were right when they claimed that they were fine because they could have made more money off of me if they replaced them. I was just concerned that they pulleys wouldn't make it to 200k. The noise warning is a good tip. It sounds smooth right now. The two new tunes from GDE have also smoothed things out while driving.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:38 am 
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I disagree.

After inspecting the wobbly pulley that came out of Captain RixRam's CRD when he did his TBelt work, it was all I needed to see to convince me that keeping the existing parts in, even if they look OK, just isn't worth it.

If it were me, I would have replaced the pulleys and tensioner when I had the chance. It's cheap insurance.

Pulleys and tensioners are rated for 100,000 or so miles, no more, and when ball bearings begin to deteriorate because of metal fatigue, it's only a matter of time before a total failure occurs.

It takes seconds when a totally failed pulley lets go for the belt to jump a few teeth and catastrophic engine failure occurs.

Captain RixRam's wobbly pulley didn't make an alerting noise for us to know that it was worn. You may never hear the pulley or tensioner making any noise or maybe you will if it's loud enough.... but do we really want to take that chance?

When it comes to maintaining our CRD's, I say do it right and don't xcrew around with the Tbelt work or the cooling system.

These are just my observations.

I mean come on, haven't we heard enough of CRD failures on here to take a chance with our own?

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:45 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
I disagree.

After inspecting the wobbly pulley that came out of Captain RixRam's CRD when he did his TBelt work, it was all I needed to see to convince me that keeping the existing parts in, even if they look OK, just isn't worth it.

If it were me, I would have replaced the pulleys and tensioner when I had the chance. It's cheap insurance.

Pulleys and tensioners are rated for 100,000 or so miles, no more, and when ball bearings begin to deteriorate because of metal fatigue, it's only a matter of time before a total failure occurs.

It takes seconds when a totally failed pulley lets go for the belt to jump a few teeth and catastrophic engine failure occurs.

Captain RixRam's wobbly pulley didn't make an alerting noise for us to know that it was worn. You may never hear the pulley or tensioner making any noise or maybe you will if it's loud enough.... but do we really want to take that chance?

When it comes to maintaining our CRD's, I say do it right and don't xcrew around with the Tbelt work or the cooling system.

These are just my observations.

I mean come on, haven't we heard enough of CRD failures on here to take a chance with our own?


Hey, Racer: Just so you know, I most certainly did replace that tensioner as soon as it came in. All other pulleys were replaced during the T-belt change.

For the poster's question: don't screw around; Replace all the pulleys and tensioners. I've not replaced this engine, and I don't want to, as it is an expense close to $10K (from what I've heard). If you want to put your mechanic's kid through college, that is your business, though. Just my $0.02....

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:51 pm
Posts: 556
Location: SE Michigan
racertracer wrote:
I disagree.

After inspecting the wobbly pulley that came out of Captain RixRam's CRD when he did his TBelt work, it was all I needed to see to convince me that keeping the existing parts in, even if they look OK, just isn't worth it.

If it were me, I would have replaced the pulleys and tensioner when I had the chance. It's cheap insurance.

Pulleys and tensioners are rated for 100,000 or so miles, no more, and when ball bearings begin to deteriorate because of metal fatigue, it's only a matter of time before a total failure occurs.

It takes seconds when a totally failed pulley lets go for the belt to jump a few teeth and catastrophic engine failure occurs.

Captain RixRam's wobbly pulley didn't make an alerting noise for us to know that it was worn. You may never hear the pulley or tensioner making any noise or maybe you will if it's loud enough.... but do we really want to take that chance?

When it comes to maintaining our CRD's, I say do it right and don't xcrew around with the Tbelt work or the cooling system.

These are just my observations.

I mean come on, haven't we heard enough of CRD failures on here to take a chance with our own?



Ah crap. Now I have to worry about it again... Stupid dealership.

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2005 Black KJ Sport CRD,
GDE Full Torque ECO TUNE, GDE Transmission ECO Tune,
Samco British Racing Green Hoses
Build Date 1/05
120k miles.
Original Owner
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Belt Service
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:48 am
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Location: Mansfield, MA
I'm with Racer and Rix. Replace them, you dont want anything to happen, if it jumps a few teeth because the idler stalls your toast

We didn't replace the water pump but that another story


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