Ram Transmission Control Module (TCM) users and results

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:31 pm

geordi wrote:

I did that (when my CRD last ran) with a cold engine and first gear would not shift until 2700-3000 rpm.

I still suspect that the main "benefit" that people are feeling as increased torque / traction is in fact just massively increased transmission line pressure. This is a computer, it can only operate within the physical specs of the transmission. The gear ratios are fixed, where the shift points and the line pressure are variable. Higher line pressure equals higher clamping forces on the clutches and the torque converter's grip on the input shaft. When operating out of lockup, hydraulic fluid pressure is all that provides the "clamping" force that allows the power to force the vehicle to move. Grab tighter on the engine, and the power "feels" like it gets to the wheels better.

I agree, I like that feeling too. But I question what this increased pressure may be doing to the lifespan of the transmission. Since my CRD is down for an unknown period waiting for parts from the UK, I will be shipping the TCM to Keith tomorrow for his analysis and comparison to his transmission tune. I still have his tune on another TCM, as well as my stock F37, so I will be able to operate with something, when the rockers arrive.

Mine shifts with no kick at all, even when towing. Of Course I have had it for two years.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:33 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

Are there any differences between an AD and a AE suffix TCM? Some have P56029053AE instead of AD at the end. What is the difference between a decoded and no decode TCM?

The E is slightly newer than the D, mine is an E.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:39 pm

Hoosier CRD wrote:

Just worked my first day with this new/different TCM. BIG difference in the overall driving experience. I was admittedly quite focused on the RPMs and was able to keep it at or below 2000 RPM most of the day. About the only big difference is taking off from a start with the goal of keeping the RPMs down. I'm accelerating slower but staying with traffic for the most part and getting up to speed/the speed limit without being left or passed. The few times that I did get passed I was able to catch up to them shortly thereafter. Definitely a different driving style though. I should hope that the MPGs increase as a result; That will be the real test to all of this.

Hoosier CRD

A couple of years ago when I drove on IN 150 & IN 63 from Evansville, IL to Aurora, IL with the RAM TCM, I got 34MPG. Of course, I was surrounded by lots of Radar. Radar must do something to the fuel to help it burn more thoroughly, LOL.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:42 pm

When I tow more than 3.5K, I leave the OD button pushed in until I get over 60MPH and then let it lock into 5th. Once I was towing over 5K and the drive line tended to vibrate a lot with the RPMs below 1,600.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:44 pm

That is called torque converter shudder.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:04 pm

geordi wrote:

That is called torque converter shudder.

WRONG!!!!
My Suncoast does not Shudder!!!!! Never Has!!!!!
The 4 cylinder engine has more vibration under a high torque load such as towing a 6K load at 1,400 RPM, yup tested it. Push in the OD button, the RPS go up and the drive line Vibration goes away. Get over 60 MPH smooth towing with the OD on.
SIMPLE
Go back in the archives and read GMCTD's postings regarding the drive line vibration, normal drive line vibration vs shudder.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:44 am

I'm not arguing it with you. Something in your driveline is slipping to cause "driveline vibration" when you are under high torque and low RPM. The fact that you state it goes away when you UNLOCK THE TORQUE CONVERTER by pushing the button for 3rd gear, proves my point.

When the torque converter is locked, your crankshaft is effectively hard-coupled to the wheels. If there is "vibration" present, it is caused by something NOT PUTTING UP WITH THE SITUATION - either there is too much power or not enough - something is slipping somewhere. Since the torque converter is the weakest part (by design, not because it is a bad component, your Suncoast is also designed to be weaker than the gears in the transmission for this purpose) then that is logically where the slip will be allowed to happen, to prevent engine damage. At high torque and low RPM, you are putting incredible rotational stress on the crankshaft. If it was NOT allowed to slip at all, when the load changes (grade, gear downshift) the reduced RPM would pull the engine below the torque curve even further and it would stall the engine out. Instead, if you add even more fuel, BUT the engine is STILL not allowed to slip, the added fuel will cause MASSIVE shear torque on the crankshaft, and could rip the output shaft in half.

You can either have minor torque converter shudder, or you can have violent torque converter shudder. You are LUGGING YOUR ENGINE by asking it to pull heavy loads at such a low RPM, which also reduces the hydraulic pressure in the transmission. It doesn't matter whether you believe me on this or not. If it was "engine-based" shudder, then it would be present at all engine loads, not just when the engine is heavily loaded at low RPM. If it isn't your torque converter, then I suggest you check your transmission pan and transfer case for gear teeth - Vibration is slippage.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:40 am

BULL CRAP, it is normal low speed vibration commonly called LUGGING.
Before the era of electronic engine control for Diesel engines, the RPM range was limited by the timing of the mechanical injection pump. The common rail engines have electronic timing control and can adjust to lower rpm loads. When under higher loads the rubber mounts for the engine and transmission are not designed to accommodate the throbbing pulses of high torque vibration and create an annoyance (Like Rap Music). Push the OD button and the annoyance goes away.
Torque converter lock up clutch slip is caused by a failed soft seat in a check valve in the front pump that educes pressure to the lock up clutch.
When I tested the Ram TCM, I ran it with the stock converter and it did not slip in lock up or shudder, because the front pump had not failed.
Then I installed the Suncoast, worked great. Then I had the ECM flashed with the Inmotion Stage 2 tune that has low end torque that is not compromised away to compensate for Bean Counter Engineering.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:11 am

at what rpm-load point are we lugging this little four-banger.

Why is line pressure an issue in the transmission? It's the same transmission in the vehicle the TCM came from.

I like the shift options this tcm gives me that I did not have before with moron tcm.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:21 am

Warp is right,it is low rpm engine shudder (in my short while, I've already "felt" it), just the same as lugging a "stick shift" engine, you know when you were 1st using a clutch, and your Dad/instructor would tell you to down shift. As far as where (what) it'll do it, that will vary on the grade and load you're pulling, but typically around 1300-1500 rpm's.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:11 am

Dennis MacGyver wrote:

Warp is right,it is low rpm engine shudder (in my short while, I've already "felt" it), just the same as lugging a "stick shift" engine, you know when you were 1st using a clutch, and your Dad/instructor would tell you to down shift. As far as where (what) it'll do it, that will vary on the grade and load you're pulling, but typically around 1300-1500 rpm's.

so either whack the o/d button or blip the throttle and it will downshift it's way out of it.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:23 am

Dennis MacGyver wrote:

Warp is right,it is low rpm engine shudder (in my short while, I've already "felt" it), just the same as lugging a "stick shift" engine, you know when you were 1st using a clutch, and your Dad/instructor would tell you to down shift. As far as where (what) it'll do it, that will vary on the grade and load you're pulling, but typically around 1300-1500 rpm's.

Running with no load or a light load at 1,300 RPM is not a problem. I have done it for a couple years with no problem.
Running at 1,400 RPM with a 5k plus load does set up a vibration just like having a stick shift in too high of a gear for the load, good analogy.
On my last trip that included including a 5 mile run of trailer towing a 3.5K load one way and 2K load empty, both hilly and flat back roads, expressway, and around town. I got 28.6MPG, not bad for over all mileage.
With the Ram TCM, pop in the OD button if you are towing 5K-7K until you get over 60MPH. Simple.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:30 am

striperman36 wrote:

Dennis MacGyver wrote:

Warp is right,it is low rpm engine shudder (in my short while, I've already "felt" it), just the same as lugging a "stick shift" engine, you know when you were 1st using a clutch, and your Dad/instructor would tell you to down shift. As far as where (what) it'll do it, that will vary on the grade and load you're pulling, but typically around 1300-1500 rpm's.

so either whack the o/d button or blip the throttle and it will downshift it's way out of it.

Driving no load, blip the peddle, towing 5K -7K press the OD button until you are over 60MPH.
If you tow a heavy load, best to invest in the Hayden Severe Duty Fan Clutch and the Mopar 11 Blade Nylon Fan too.
Note: The VM engineers sharpened their pencils to the point where the Viscous fan clutch is factored into the total rotating mass of the engine (kinda acts like a flywheel). Remove it with out replacing it with the same or better, and you will put your front vibration dampener under more stress. Since the Hayden Severe Duty costs less than the OEM and has a little more mass due to being Severe Duty, this is a no brainer.*
* Except for those who can make Diamonds by swallowing lumps of coal, like Bean Counter Engineers. :ROTFL:

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:49 pm

Here is a new one. My speedo is more accurate. Tonight, I am going to hook up Torque on my trip into Boston for work. But before, My speedo would say 62, the GPS would say 58, and Torque displayed 60. Today, I had the GPS on and 62 on the speedo said 60 on the GPS.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:22 am

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Here is a new one. My speedo is more accurate. Tonight, I am going to hook up Torque on my trip into Boston for work. But before, My speedo would say 62, the GPS would say 58, and Torque displayed 60. Today, I had the GPS on and 62 on the speedo said 60 on the GPS.

On a 2500 mile trip in July my new Tom Tom gps agreed with the speedometer twice and each time it was for like 20 miles. I'm pretty sure by the RPM's and other traffic it was a tom tom error and it has not done it since.
Normally 69 mph on the speedometer gives a gps 65 for both my old and new tom tom's.
Maybe I entered the "Twilight zone" :ROTFL:

How did Torque work for more then a few minutes on your CRD?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:56 am

Joe Romas wrote:

How did Torque work for more then a few minutes on your CRD?

I use the Chrysler protocol and don't bombard the obdii for info. Monitor a few select things. Doesn't work all the time, but been having better luck.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

omaharacer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:17 pm

I just installed a 03 Ram TCM into my 05 CRD P/N P56029053AD taking out the GDE tune TCM. Did the reverse, 1, 2, D learning. So far, it does well shifting at 42mph and 52mph. It doesn't like to shift out of first unless it hits 2500rpm on light acceleration. On a hill w/ light load it will keep rpm's around 2300 through 1-3 then finally shift down to 1500rpm in 4th. On a approx. 90% throttle (not to the floor) on an on-ramp it went to 4300-4400rpm before shifting from 1st, and around 3500rpm when shifting from 2nd. I'll record video of it next time I'm out driving around just to test the transmission shift points. The transmission was already warmed up when I swapped out the TCM's, so results might change on a cold engine/transmission.
The only odd thing so far was that when shifting from Reverse to Drive the Jeep will lurch forward like it has part throttle. RPM's are around 800-900 when shifting. Thinking this is due to the increased line pressure? Or just another issue. Didn't do this before with the old TCM.
The GDE TCM will be going into my wife's 05 CRD to replace the stock Post Neutered TCM.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:55 pm

omaharacer wrote:

I just installed a 03 Ram TCM into my 05 CRD P/N P56029053AD taking out the GDE tune TCM. Did the reverse, 1, 2, D learning. So far, it does well shifting at 42mph and 52mph. It doesn't like to shift out of first unless it hits 2500rpm on light acceleration. On a hill w/ light load it will keep rpm's around 2300 through 1-3 then finally shift down to 1500rpm in 4th. On a approx. 90% throttle (not to the floor) on an on-ramp it went to 4300-4400rpm before shifting from 1st, and around 3500rpm when shifting from 2nd. I'll record video of it next time I'm out driving around just to test the transmission shift points. The transmission was already warmed up when I swapped out the TCM's, so results might change on a cold engine/transmission.
The only odd thing so far was that when shifting from Reverse to Drive the Jeep will lurch forward like it has part throttle. RPM's are around 800-900 when shifting. Thinking this is due to the increased line pressure? Or just another issue. Didn't do this before with the old TCM.
The GDE TCM will be going into my wife's 05 CRD to replace the stock Post Neutered TCM.

Remember, the last time the TCM was used, it was in a truck. It'll take time to get used to YOU. The lurching will stop and remember to TOTALLY take your foot off the throttle to get it to shift from 1st to 2nd @2000 rpm's or less (just like you were driving a stick). Better go back and re-familiarize yourself with warp's learning procedure. Remember the point here is to increase your mpg's, so that means light throttle and DON'T go over 3500 rpm's !!

Eskymo · **Joined:** Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:15 am **Posts:** 31

Sorry to revive such an old thread guys, but for those of you who've done the swap, do you still think it's worthwhile? I have an 05 Liberty CRD, with GDE ecu tune, but still have the original tcm with the f37... I can get a dodge tcm shipped out here to Australia for about $140. Do ya reckon it's worth the try? Thanks for any input

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:24 pm

If you tow any weight, you should really consider the GDE TCM "tow tune". It holds 4rth gear up to 70 mph. Makes a HUGE difference up hills on the highway. Also, locks TC above 35 mph. This gains 3-4 mpg when driving between 35 and 55 mph. You can get one programmed from Keith and return your OEM after installing the new one, so no downtime.

DOC

Ram Transmission Control Module (TCM) users and results

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