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EGTs while towing.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70729		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  EGTs while towing.
Just wanted some input on EGTS. I always let the motor run 10 to 15 min after pulling a heavy load. With the heater running to pull the heat out of the motor. Is that a enough time to bring the EGTs down to help the turbo.

Also looking for a good gauge to help.
Author:  geordi [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
That is beyond plenty of time, but we need more information - what are you pulling? How fast? What kind of roads? How heavy is the trailer? What kind of front profile does it have? Is it streamlined like a car or boat... Or is it a brick like a travel trailer or box trailer?

Check out Glow Shift Gauges, lots of members like them (I have 3 of them and like them) and they are pretty good prices. I put my EGT in the entrance of the turbo, at the hottest point. Pulling a generator (small box profile behind the jeep) that weighed 6800 lbs, I was reading around 1200-1300 degrees fairly consistently. With idling, that temp came down to 400 in about 2-3 minutes. Temps post-turbo would be about 300 degrees lower apparently.
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
travel trailer 3000 pounds 60 to65 . I want to be able to take to the mountains next year. So I've got a full torque tune on the way. I'm doing a fan clutch next week and transmission cooler. A torque converter soon.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
Recommend a pyro if you are going to the mountains. Make sure your cooling system is doing well. Mine got warm towing a TT in Pennsylvania. I was pulling his with my eco tune at WOT and 45MPH. I wish now that I had put in a full set of gauges.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
jlgail4309 wrote:
travel trailer 3000 pounds 60 to65 . I want to be able to take to the mountains next year. So I've got a full torque tune on the way. I'm doing a fan clutch next week and transmission cooler. A torque converter soon.


Joe Romas has the GDE FT tune can tell you all you need to know and put it into perspective on towing 3,000 lbs travel trailers through mountains.

I have the Inmotion Stage 2 that has great low end torque. My trailer weighs more loaded 6,000 - 7,000 lbs but it is a beaver tail that has very little frontal area.

Joe has his probe after the Turbo so he reads ~300 F low and mine is in an exhaust runner ahead of the turbo and I would tend to read ~50F high. Probe placement makes a difference. I never let mine go over 1,400 for more than 2-3 seconds and try to keep it under 1250F on the straight haul or up a grade. With the Hemi TCM I turn off the OD until I get over 60MPH when towing over 5,000 Lb, under 5,000lbs, I leave the OD on.

Ask Joe about the OD setting he uses for his Travel Trailer.

We both use the Hayden Severe Duty fan clutch and the 11 blade Mopar fan that helps keep the EGTs down, temps down, and help the AC work better.
Author:  Glend [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
My probe is pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold as close as I could get it to the turbo port. I try to keep it under 1000F when towing and have my ProSport gauge alarmed for 1100F. The cooler you can keep the turbo the longer it should last. The EGT is also a great way to monitor over-fueling which a heavy foot will give you without much real benefit in performance.

My regular EGT temps (when not towing) tend to be around 800F on the flat on average (obviously terrain plays a part in that, as do head winds).
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
You can run 1500F intermittently with the stock KJ turbo and 1450F continuously without any detrimental durability issues.

Hope this quells any doubts about the limits to adhere to. 3-4 minutes of cool down after heavy towing all day does the most for prolonging turbo life.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
MrMopar64 wrote:
You can run 1500F intermittently with the stock KJ turbo and 1450F continuously without any detrimental durability issues.

Hope this quells any doubts about the limits to adhere to. 3-4 minutes of cool down after heavy towing all day does the most for prolonging turbo life.


For clarification - Are you referring to pre-turbo or post-turbo probe locations for these temperatures?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
I installed my probe post turbo in the down pipe using the VM location mentioned by GDE some time ago. As I recall converting the given metric dimention it's 5.9" from the joint at the turbo and by my calculations that puts it right in the center of the 90 degree turn downward.

Normal driving without the trailer in 90+ weather with the AC on the EGT ranges from 400-600f

Two years in a row we have traveled towing our 3000-3500 pound 17' Casita trailer from Ohio over the West Virginia turnpike, a little of Virginia on I-77 then East across NC mostly on Rt 64 to the coast. The next leg was down the coast into Georgia and I-95 to the East coast of Florida around the Cape Canaveral area.
Then return to Ohio in a direct route.
I have the GDE full torque tune, "Euro" TC and new style front pump. I have both pre and post F37 TCM's and find the post F37 works better for towing expecially with the GDE FT tune. Total vehicle mileage is currently 55k miles. This year before our trip I installed the Hayden 2905 fan clutch and the 11 blade nylon MOPAR fan.
Last year (pre fan update) in 90 plus temperatures in northern NC going up hill trying to maintain a true (GPS) 65 MPH the EGT at one point quickly went to 1200f and the temperature guage got just past the 12 o'clock and I let off.

This year (post fan and fan clutch updates) the EGT never got above 900f and the engine temperature never got over 11:30 on the guage like it was glued there and a true 65 mph was a breeze up the same stretch of interstate:SOMBRERO:
I leave the engine running until the EGT gets down to 400f or less and that's no more then about 5 minutes when towing.
With stock size tires when my speedometer reads about 69 my GPS says 65mph :JEEPIN:
The new fan and clutch make far less noise and at first I was a tad concerned. However at a rest stop I raised the hood with the engine running and experience more air flow then I had ever observed. My concerns were put to rest :-)r
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
geordi wrote:
MrMopar64 wrote:
You can run 1500F intermittently with the stock KJ turbo and 1450F continuously without any detrimental durability issues.

Hope this quells any doubts about the limits to adhere to. 3-4 minutes of cool down after heavy towing all day does the most for prolonging turbo life.


For clarification - Are you referring to pre-turbo or post-turbo probe locations for these temperatures?



Those temps are at turbine inlet, in the plenum of the manifold right where the turbo bolts to.
Author:  Dennis MacGyver [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
The Liberty is my first turbo that is VGT. I don't know if the following applies to this type of turbo, but here goes.....

The other turbo diesels that I have, have EGT & boost gauges. The trick I've found to keep those turbos cool is to keep your rpm's up and you throttle as light as possible, keep watching your rpm's, maintain your speed, but keep reducing your throttle until your speed just starts to drop off, this will give you your lowest EGT's. I always try to keep my EGT's in the range of 1000 to 1100 degrees F and I NEVER go over 1200*F.

This will be your sweet spot for a given grade (hill). Maximum speed, lowest EGT's, lowest rpm's. In my other 4 speed auto-boxes, this always takes place in 3rd gear (shift it into 3rd to keep it there).

Black smoke always equals high exhaust temps and wasted fuel.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
Here's a link to the pre and post temperatures per GDE.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56958&p=645683&hilit=EGT+probe#p645683
Author:  GTS [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
Pyro probes should always be pre turbo. There can be a big variance in temps from pre to post depending on circumstances. Anywhere from 200°-500°.

1450° is WAY up there for continuous temps. I haven't seen the actual manufacturer's specs on this but with the bigger pickups usually 1250° is considered sustainable indefinitely and the higher you go over that the exponentially shorter time you can have it there. It's just like holding your hand over a candle. You hold it there for a quick moment and it doesn't burn but the longer you hold it there the more it burns you. The longer you have the EGT's higher the more the heat soaks into the metal in the engine and more likely to have a melt down.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
The 1450F is actually fairly low for this small frame size turbo and isn't an issue at all.

New turbos with superior materials and/or water-cooled turbos (like the new Audis and MBs) can run 900C (1652F) all day long without any issues of durability.
Thanks to better oils and improved bearing technologies, things have improved a lot.
Author:  GTS [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
The turbo being able to handle things is much less a concern as the aluminum pistons and valves etc. Granted metals have most likely improved there as well but I'd still be much more worried about that having had cracked pistons from what I'm pretty sure was high temps.
Author:  Gmaschner [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
Try not to maintain or go above 1250 and you should be safe. Keep rpm's up to create more boost and it should keep temps low. Manually downshift the trans to hold gears if needed while towing. Keeping them below this # shouldn't be a problem at all. 1450+ is very hot = cooling system failures.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
I believe the pistons are cooled with an oil jet from the underside and the oil is cooled by engine coolant. If the pistons and such are able to get that hot, the coolant would get hot, and then the engine begins defueling to prevent damage.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Author:  Tinman [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGTs while towing.
One can't forget the role timing plays in sustainable EGTs. The more retarded the timing the higher the EGTs and the cooler the piston temps. Advance the timing and the high the piston temp compared to EGTs. With most modern diesels running stupid retarded timing, EGTs can be quit high with safe piston temps. That's why MrMopars comments about modern turbos tolerating higher temps. Turbo design and cooling has had to get better in order to use the retarded (speaking literally and figuratively) timing for today's emmissioned engines. So if the EGTs are 1600 and the turbo can take it, the top end might be just fine with x timing. Advance that timing for performance improvement and that max safe EGT has to be lowered. Remember engines are tested on a dyno and run full tilt for long periods with the factory set up. If they say x EGTs are safe it is probably so, at the tune from the factory.
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