Etecno 7 Volt Glow Plugs

jthomas999 · **Joined:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:51 pm **Posts:** 98

Does anyone here have experience running them in sub zero weather? I have a report taht some of the early ones didn't work well below about 10 F. I need to replace some glow plugs, and it that is the case, then I may go the factory replacement 5 volt route.

John

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:33 am

I've got them, but I'm in Nashville, TN and there's not a lot of sub-zero weather here. I have read from people posting that live in the great white North but I honestly and sincerely do not recall any mention of problems with them in low temperatures.

Anyone from the great white north care to comment?

I will NEVER have ceramic glow plugs again at any voltage, not after I had to pull the head off of mine and get pieces out of the cylinders.

NEVER.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:34 am

If you want assured starting in sub zero temperatures the 5 volt ones are not for you :dizzy:

VW has been through the breaking ceramic 7 volt glow plugs and came out with 5 volt metal ones too and those that switched wished they hadn't

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:30 pm

There is more to it than just voltage. There is absolutely no reason why a well designed 5V plug and control system can't provide exactly the same performance as a 7V system.

While past experience would suggest otherwise Chrysler may have come up with a superior solution to either VW or Etecno 1.

Radman · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:54 pm

I was one of the testers for the Etecno ones last winter. They did fine, however we had a milder winter that normal so never saw a really cold start. Etecno did tell me they were increasing the heat range on the production lot after the testing was completed. So they should be even better now. They did have some serious winter testors in Northern climates test them also.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:55 pm

I don't want to mention any names, but one of the Testers (I recommended this individual to Etecno) has a reputation for having very bad luck with his CRD engine. His luck was good with the Etecno 7 Volt Glow Plugs and they survived.
One thing that is very critical to starting in sub zero weather is a good battery.
The Sears P1 is fantastic and cranks the engine much faster at -15F than the Optima Red top.
Cranking a little faster more than makes up for any micro nuances regarding glow plugs.
Slow cranking greatly reduces the heat of compression generated by cranking and puts more duty onto the glow plugs to insure proper starting.
One would need to run a double blind study to verify the performance beyond a doubt.
This would be costly and very time consuming, cheaper to buy a P1 and be done with it, beats begging for a jump or walking when it is below zero.
But, since Engineering is based upon the laws of Physics, lets assume Etecno ran tests in freezers and measured the current draw and amount of heat produced doing what they had to do to make the glow plugs a drop in replacement. This is not Rocket Science, just good Engineering.
When a US supplier starts selling Etecno 7 V glow plugs, I will buy a set to have spares.

jthomas999 · **Joined:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:51 pm **Posts:** 98

What do you mean by a P1?

"This would be costly and very time consuming, cheaper to buy a P1 and be done with it, beats begging for a jump or walking when it is below zero."

I'm just trying to decide which is the better router, buy the Jeep upgrade kit, replace the glow plugs, controller and reprogram the computer, or just replace the glow plugs with Etecno. While it is unusual for it to get below 0 around where I live, it did get to -10 in the winter of 2010-2011, and I am not looking forward to being stuck.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:28 am

P1=Sears P-1 battery. A bit pricey but lots of CCA and an excellent warranty. Alternative is the Interstate Interstate Megatron 85 mo which is slightly less pricey and has a decent warranty. Both in group 34 size; install backwards so + pole is on same side as with the red top; OEM wiring will reach that way.

Etecno glow plugs are a relatively easy DIY drop in replacement hence the out the door cost is less than going the DCJ 5v route when you figure in the dealer charge of ca. $100 to reprogram your ECU from 7v to 5v. If you have a GDE tune the reprogramming costs less but the total cost is still a bit more than just dropping in the Etecno plugs.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:59 am

jthomas999 wrote:

What do you mean by a P1?

"This would be costly and very time consuming, cheaper to buy a P1 and be done with it, beats begging for a jump or walking when it is below zero."

I'm just trying to decide which is the better router, buy the Jeep upgrade kit, replace the glow plugs, controller and reprogram the computer, or just replace the glow plugs with Etecno. While it is unusual for it to get below 0 around where I live, it did get to -10 in the winter of 2010-2011, and I am not looking forward to being stuck.

VW did the same dance with replacing the Ceramic Glow Plugs with the 5V glow steel plugs and failed and failed, pissed off customers and failed again, then went to 7 Volt steel Glow Plugs. Custom Tuners like Rocket Chip fixed the Glow Plug Run Times so the VW TDIs would start right.

If you don't live in the Deep South and your Brother is the Local Jeep Dealer with a five star service rating, you might try the 5V GP with the flash. Otherwise, go with the Sears P1 Battery and Etecno steel 7V Glow Plugs.

Why do we have all these headaches with Glow Plugs that make the Manufacturers look stupid?
EPA should be called the Environmental Predator Administration (with their insane regulations that often do exactly the opposite of what they pretend to do), instead being called the Environmental Protection Administration.
Latest factoid is that an 18 wheel Diesel truck out fitted with the current required emissions equipment can drive 143 miles before it puts out the Pollution of 1 Char Broiled Hamburger.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/09/ ... an-trucks/

This article drives home the point, the Inmates in Washington DC are running the Psycho Ward.

dieseldoesit · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:32 pm

What does the EPA have to do with glow plugs? :dizzy:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:17 pm

dieseldoesit wrote:

What does the EPA have to do with glow plugs? :dizzy:

Since Glow Plugs are cycled on and off as the engine first starts up to improve combustion and reduce emissions of raw unburned fuel, Glow Plugs are considered an emission control device, not just a starting aid. Changing any part of the Glow Plugs from Ceramic to steel can create a new round of potential tests that may have to be run if the EPA says so. Since the EPA regulations are written by Idiot Lawyers who could not get a job any place else, instead of by Engineers who have a chance of knowing what they are doing, you have total stupidity.
The EPA is going after your Char Broiled Berger next, not just your glow plugs.

With out stepping too far over the line of Politics, I would support whom ever would fire, lay off, or retire most if not all of the Federal Government Regulation Writers.

dieseldoesit · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:25 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

dieseldoesit wrote:

What does the EPA have to do with glow plugs? :dizzy:

Since Glow Plugs are cycled on and off as the engine first starts up to improve combustion and reduce emissions of raw unburned fuel, Glow Plugs are considered an emission control device, not just a starting aid. Changing any part of the Glow Plugs from Ceramic to steel can create a new round of potential tests may have to be run. Since the EPA regulations are written by Idiot Lawyers who could not get a job any place else, instead of by Engineers who have a chance of knowing what they are doing, you have total stupidity.
The EPA is going after your Char Broiled Berger next, not just your glow plugs.

With out stepping too far over the line of Politics, I would support whom ever would fire, lay off, or retire most of the Federal Government Regulation Writers.

So since glow plugs help reduce emissions and aid cold starting, the EPA is responsible for companies making crappy glow plugs that increase emissions and make cold starting difficult?

Wouldn't the regulations of EPA create faster startup and better cold starting?

Or are you saying the EPA restrict the ability of glow plugs to do their job?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:03 pm

EPA=IDIOTS ON STEROIDS

The EPA does not give a Fecal (Polite way to say the S word) about the Quality of parts like glow plugs. They just care about compliance with their Regulations right or wrong based upon established fact or Junk Science.

From what I understand, the Glow Plug Controller actually fires on/off spikes that even exceed 12 Volts into a 7 Volt Glow Plug for X number of Milliseconds to reduce start up up emissions by warming up the glow plug super fast, lets call it a software dance routine. The colder it is the longer the dance routine goes on after the engine starts.
With a Gun to their head, VW on the first Cluster F#ck round and Chrysler second Cluster F#ck round changed the dance routine to supposedly work with the 5 V glow plugs in an attempt to make the Stupid EPA Lawyers Happy. Both the dance and the glow Plugs Sucked and failed for VW and many say for Chrysler as well in cold climates. Some tuners changed the dance a little to work better with the 5 Volt Glow Plugs.
What Etecno did was design a 7 Volt Glow Plug to work with the old dance with no Gun to their Head and came up with a Glow Plug that works.

dieseldoesit · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:08 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

EPA=IDIOTS ON STEROIDS

The EPA does not give a Fecal (Polite way to say the S word) about Quality of parts like glow plugs. They just care about compliance with their Regulations right or wrong based upon established fact or Junk Science.

So that is a yes, that it is the EPA's fault that Jeep and it seems VW can't build good glow plugs..

Thanks for the clarification.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

You guys are talking about two different operating modes.

1. EPA - the glow plugs are used at 20C coolant temps to help with combustion to minimize hydrocarbon emissions. They help assist with more complete combustion. During the emission cycle the glow plugs are used at about 55% duty cycle for roughly 120 seconds. Then they shut off. That is the extent of what is needed to meet government regulations.

2. At cold start -10 F and similar. Glow plugs go through a "pushing phase" (12 volts) for two seconds to bring them to peak temperature to aid in starts. They then have a high duty cycle around 75% to maintain temp for smooth running for about the first 4 minutes of running.

There is a lot of background engineering involved in optimizing glow plug operation for cold start including placement, protrusion in cylinder, temperature, etc. to make them function optimally.

Here is the gist: Ceramic glow plugs have a peak temp of around 1300 F and metallic glow plugs top out at 1050F. Ceramic glow plugs are designed to split twos hole of the injector spray nozzle, thus catching fragments of fuel atomization. Metallic glow plugs can handle "spray on", one injector hole spraying directly on the glow plug tip. The problem with spray on plugs is that they cause higher emissions when the glow plugs are not in use, so most manufacturers do not design in this manner any more.

Whether you use the 7 volt drop ins or the 5 volt mopar, the startabilty will be less optimized than the ceramic units by design. The cylinder head would need a redesign to be optimized.

We have tested all of these for the OEMs, for Bosch and Etecno. In the end, if in a very cold climate, we suggest cycling the glow plugs a couple times before cranking the engine if using metallics. It helps dramatically and is the best compromise based on the hardware limitations.

2mopar_diesels · **Posted:** Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:36 am

Reading all this makes me love the simplicity of my 5.9 Cummins that much more!!! Love the fact no glow plugs were ever used in its entire life span. And even in the newest 6.7 version still don't, which means you don't "have" to design a diesel with glow plugs.

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

You guys are talking about two different operating modes.

1. EPA - the glow plugs are used at 20C coolant temps to help with combustion to minimize hydrocarbon emissions. They help assist with more complete combustion. During the emission cycle the glow plugs are used at about 55% duty cycle for roughly 120 seconds. Then they shut off. That is the extent of what is needed to meet government regulations.

2. At cold start -10 F and similar. Glow plugs go through a "pushing phase" (12 volts) for two seconds to bring them to peak temperature to aid in starts. They then have a high duty cycle around 75% to maintain temp for smooth running for about the first 4 minutes of running.

There is a lot of background engineering involved in optimizing glow plug operation for cold start including placement, protrusion in cylinder, temperature, etc. to make them function optimally.

Here is the gist: Ceramic glow plugs have a peak temp of around 1300 F and metallic glow plugs top out at 1050F. Ceramic glow plugs are designed to split twos hole of the injector spray nozzle, thus catching fragments of fuel atomization. Metallic glow plugs can handle "spray on", one injector hole spraying directly on the glow plug tip. The problem with spray on plugs is that they cause higher emissions when the glow plugs are not in use, so most manufacturers do not design in this manner any more.

Whether you use the 7 volt drop ins or the 5 volt mopar, the startabilty will be less optimized than the ceramic units by design. The cylinder head would need a redesign to be optimized.

We have tested all of these for the OEMs, for Bosch and Etecno. In the end, if in a very cold climate, we suggest cycling the glow plugs a couple times before cranking the engine if using metallics. It helps dramatically and is the best compromise based on the hardware limitations.

Etecno 7 Volt Glow Plugs

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