2005 CRD, Did I blow my engine?

johng3592 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:12 am **Posts:** 6

2005 Jeep KJ CRD 180,000 miles

I was driving at 55 mph on the interstate when I noticed high temps, smoke, and loud engine noise, which became more apparent as I slowed down. Power is also way down.

The engine runs very rough and needs some attention on the gas pedal to idle. To my ear, I cannot say if the noise is mechanical or an air noise. I think it may be some air noise/intake noise, especially in view of the error code. The noise is cyclic, making a "whump" a couple times a second.

P0112 (Intake Air Temperature circuit Low Input) is the only new code being reported.

Is anyone familiar with what these symptoms could mean? Blown engine?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Uh-oh... Noises aren't a good sign, rough idle isn't either. The engine should be able to idle just fine without the air box sensors or the turbo attached.

Down on power and black smoke while moving sounds like a popped boost hose, VERY common problem. Not being able to idle tho... I don't like that. What sensors do you have disconnected? What mods have you done? How is the oil level? Is the engine visibly shaking at idle? What is the FULL list of codes you got?

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johng3592 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:12 am **Posts:** 6

THe only other code I have is a P0700 on the transmission that was a known issue the transmission shop was working through.

Good point about the hoses. I've had busted hoses before. Idle is much worse. I have the Eco tune ECU. Oil level when it happened was at the low mark. I put a quart in and it is at the top mark, so there should have been enough oil in the system. I don't think I want to start it again, so I'll just get it to a shop for an estimate. Care to ballpark what kind of costs I'm looking at?

Theres a couple diesel shops in town...

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:45 pm

I don't have enough information to give you anything like an accurate ballpark, other than it could be as cheap as new hoses... Up to $8,000 for a new engine. Unfortunately, you are about to also enter the realm of a fishing expedition... Both to find a shop willing to look at your Jeep (because they won't know the engine at all) as well as how deep your wallet goes.

Fishing for an answer sucks. I hope for your sake, the shop is good, and the problem presents itself easily.

The only suggestion I do have: pay the money to have them START with pulling the oil pan and looking at the bottom end. Rod bearings, caps, bolts. Bad idle and noises tells me that will be where your failure is. Check my "tapping top end" thread for hints, nothing I did to the top end changed or fixed anything. It was all going to bits at the bottom. AGAIN. And just like last time where I lost the turbo, the problem STARTED at highway speed, but this time, I never lost the turbo or oil pressure. The bottom just fell apart.

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johng3592 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:12 am **Posts:** 6

OK, bottom end. Check.

If it's confined to the bottom end, they could concieveably fix it from down there without breaking the engine down? If the pain hasn't spread...

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:39 pm

johng3592 wrote:

OK, bottom end. Check.

If it's confined to the bottom end, they could concieveably fix it from down there without breaking the engine down? If the pain hasn't spread...

Theoretically, the block is a "tunnel" style, which should mean the crank could be removed without pulling the whole block. That'd also save your head gasket, cylinder tear down, and a whole host of labor cash. Can they buy the bearings and parts? That is the million dollar question. If Chrysler doesn't want to stock the engine internals (afaik they don't) and VM blows you off... England may be your friend. Look for "the VM Specialist" and see if they can help.

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CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:00 pm

In my mind, the bottom end is the last, and most expensive thing to check. Maybe your timing belt just skipped a few teeth and broke some rockers. That can cause noise, rough running, no power and backfiring out the intake. Was the timing belt replaced at 100,000 mi? Was the timing belt tensioner replaced at that time? It will be easy and cheap for a mechanic to check cam/crank timing or pull the timing cover to look at the belt. That's where I'd have them start.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:46 pm

CATCRD wrote:

In my mind, the bottom end is the last, and most expensive thing to check. Maybe your timing belt just skipped a few teeth and broke some rockers. That can cause noise, rough running, no power and backfiring out the intake. Was the timing belt replaced at 100,000 mi? Was the timing belt tensioner replaced at that time? It will be easy and cheap for a mechanic to check cam/crank timing or pull the timing cover to look at the belt. That's where I'd have them start.

Respectfully, checking the cam/crank timing alignment using the pins as gages is relatively easy, and if the alignment is off then you have a good place to start looking. CATCRD is right in that idle regulation problems are typically caused by faults in fuel or air supply; this can be valves, injectors, turbo, timing, etc.; the CRD is notorious for being unforgiving on timing belt PM intervals, and there have been a number of posts that described symptoms similar to yours that were in fact issues with the timing.

That said, looking at the belt on this engine is NOT easy, and NOT cheap, at least as far as I am concerned, :twisted:

and would not give you much more information than the pin alignment check would; if the alignment is now off, then you know what happened, and are looking at new rockers and timing belt components. After I did the easy check of cam/crank alignment, if that shows as OK, then I would take Geordi's advice and check the lower end by dropping the pan. That's my thought, and it is worth what you paid for it. :lol:

Regardless of the designer's intent, I suspect that ruining a few sets of rockers has to be hard on the lower end, and may have contributed to Geordi's two lower end failures, so if you have indeed suffered collapse of the rockers due to TB failure, if it were my engine, I would do just what Geordi suggests and pay somebody to look at the rod bearing clearances and bolts.

As far as who to have do the work, I would look for a good independent TDI mechanic, and pay him and some good mechanic from the forum, like Sir Sam, for a couple of hours of consult time prior to letting them get their hooks into your Jeep.

johng3592 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:12 am **Posts:** 6

Hi Guys:

Had a busy week fighting a crisis at work, while riding my bike to and from the office, with the broke jeep stuck in the garage. Sorry I didn't stay on top of the thread. It was all I could do to feed myself after work before falling dead asleep.

Does somebody have a guide for checking the cam/crank timing with the pins? I did have my timing belt replaced at 130,000, so it should have been a mid-life part with 50,000 on it. I would not have suspected it first. But can't rule anything out until it's looked at.

I have the KJ manual, but is there a guide to specifically check the timing?

I have a friend with a VW/ porsche shop that might be able to help me diagnose anyway... He thinks if there's broken metal, just drop in a new/used motor.

I'm also thinking of selling as-is? Anybody have a guess for the value of a 2005 CRD with a project engine? All original except the Eco-tune ECU, and the transmission was rebuilt 18 months ago. Water pump was new with the timing belt, and has a fuel filter and alternator put on new since the first of the year.

2005 CRD, Did I blow my engine?

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