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| Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71962 |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
Hello. I'm new here. I just picked up a Dark Khaki 2005 Limited CRD this past Friday. I haven't had this thing a week and I'm in love already. I made an intro thread in that appropriate sub-forum but I figured I'd let you all know what I'm working with since this is my first post in here. I've noticed a whine coming from the turbo when the engine is still cold. It does it when the turbo is spooling up. It seems like the colder the ambient temperture, the more pronounced it is. It's hard to describe the sound. But it's definitely coming from the turbo. The warmer the engine becomes, the quiter this sound becomes. Eventually it's replaced by the normal whistle when building boost. I realize that things expand when heated up. The whine doesn't sound "bad" but things like this drive me crazy. Not knowing if it's a bad thing. Is this normal or should I be checking for shaft play? I tried searching the forum for an answer to no avail. Thanks in advance, Garrett |
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| Author: | racertracer [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
Check the turbo for play. If there is no play, then perform a Turbo Tune up by bringing the engine to operating temperature and driving it hard on the highway for a half hour to burn off any carbon build up on the turbo vanes. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
X2 and while in there make sure the airbox to turbo hose is not torn or soft just in front of the turbo (if so replace) and on reattaching make sure the upper end touches the MAF sensor before tightening clamp lest you crush the plastic airbox outlet. Read thru Sir Sam's NOOB guide and be sure to deal with the timing belt replacement that's critical at 100,000 miles (if you are past that get written proof the job has been done and if that's not available ideally park the vehicle until it's done) |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
I just tore into the intake this evening. The airbox to turbo inlet hose is tore at the turbo end right where the clamp goes. I also checked the CAC from the turbo. No tears but it's getting soft. Not to mention the oily mess inside it. As far as shaft play, there is a little bit. The end of the shaft seems to move a few millimeters side to side. This turbo only has around 30k miles on it. The PO had it replaced because of failure. I recorded a video of the play. I'll try to post it if I can figure it out. On I side note, I gave it an Italian tuneup on my way home from work. |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDFM4Nsvo-E&sns=em Here is the video. Hopefully it posted. |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
Not good. DIY, it is about a 5 hour job. I wouldn't drive it. Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
The fins aren't contacting the housing, yet anyways. The sound in the video is my fingernail trying the "grip" the shaft to cause the movement. It spins freely and doesn't have any axial play(in/out). I know some radial play is normal. But I'm no expert on how much is too much. And once oil pressure reaches the bearing, the shaft is suspended hydrostatically eliminating any play. That is unless these little blowers use ball bearings. I'm currently waiting on my aftermarket warranty info. It was able to transfer from the PO and is good until 130k miles/2015. They will be getting a call about this along with the timing belt. Thank for the input. |
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| Author: | CATCRD [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
That's probably 3 or 4 times as much sideplay as mine. I would say the bearings are going out and that's causing your howl. Also interesting to me that you have a "nutted" compressor wheel, and some of our turbos have a "nutless" wheel, which threads itself directly onto the shaft. |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
I was hoping not to hear that. I also noticed while I was in there that the drain tube is leaking at the turbo. I think it's safe to say the PO didn't take care the turbo too well. It only has around 30k miles on it. He said "they" never gave a reason for the original failure. I'm not sure exactly who did the work but I would imagine a dealership. I guess all I can do now is wait for my warranty info to arrive in the mail then give them a call. If I didn't have this warranty I'd just do it myself the right way. And it's too bad it can't be rebuilt. Thanks for your input. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
That's orders of magnitude too much lateral play; at most you should be able to "feel" just a hint of lateral play a "see" none. FYI these turbos have a bronze "sleeve" bearing with tiny oil passages and feeder grooves so that the turbo shaft rides on a film of oil "above" the bearing. Frankly I'm somewhat surprised that the turbo blades are not already contacting the housing at which point the skreetch becomes extremely obvious. At this point 1) the sound is at least partially due to the torn airbox to turbo hose (about $60 from dealer - see my note about how to remount) and 2) I'd be reluctant to drive it much pending turbo replacement. With respect to the latter I don't know anything about your warranty but I'd imagine they will be real difficult about replacing a turbo that's about to fail vs. a turbo that has failed. Unfortunately a really bad turbo failure can take the engine with it. As to turbo replacement. IDParts has a pretty decent price on a replacement turbo and may also have the needed gaskets and such. IIRC you will need some copper crush washers (NAPA should have) for the oil feed line attachment points; IMHO but probably not critical an oil return line grommet (5142794AA) for where the line pushes into the block; a gasket for where the oil return line mounts to the turbo (NOTE - I think there is one there but don't see it on the parts fiche); and a gasket (5142657AB) for where the turbo attaches to the block. Based on geordi and my experience on swapping my OEM turbo for the GDE Stage II turbo it's certainly a DIY project although 5hrs may be a bit optimistic. I say that mainly because of the 4 stud/nut combos that hold the turbo to the block. I cannot speak for other's experience but on my engine those studs were really weak and we used up a lot of time extracting and replacing broken studs with decent grade 5 ones (easily obtained from local parts store). The OEM nuts are "jam" nuts and can be exceptionally hard to remove even if the studs don't break. IMHO I would not use new jam nuts on an install; regular grade 5 nuts with lock washers and a dab of antiseize will do just fine. To avoid the problem we had with the stud/nut combos I'd strongly recommend allowing an additional day for the job simple to repeatedly soak those items with a good penetrating oil spray so that, hopefully, they will undo easily the next day. Other than this removal/replacement is pretty simple. I suspect you will find that 1) removal of the turbo actuator vacuum tower will improve access and 2) so will proping the hood up and removing the passenger side hood support. |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
5 hours may seem a bit optimistic. He is right about soaking the bolts and studs. The first time I removed mine, I broke one. Now, I am down to removal in about 1 1/2 hours. I would say take everything off and soak the studs overnight. From on top, remove your coolant reservoir. On the bottom, remove the whole turbo bracket. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
I'd forgotten about the coolant tank. When removing it FYI there is an odd shaped metal bracket underneath the that that from the factory slides into a slot on the bottom of the coolant tank so you have to pull the tank forward off the bracket before you can remove the tank. On reinstall you can slid the tank back onto the bracket or just rest it on top so the bracket supports the weight of the tank not the bolts into the firewall thru the plastic tank tabs. |
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| Author: | spoolingCRD [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cold turbo whine. Is it normal? |
I did a little more diagnosing on my siren/whine sound. With a little help from my wife, I disconnected the VGT/VNT vacuum line while she gave it some fuel while I listened. The noise disappeared. The turbo still spooled up although not as fast(obviously). Not even a hint of this siren like sound. |
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