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| I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72054 |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Alright, so I had to make a trip Tuesday and I took the CRD. I saw another nice Red CRD on the way up travelling north up Highway 41 in Kentucky, but alas I digress. So I'm driving up, and I really start to lose power and hear a rattling kind of noise. The engine is still running well except for the rattling and the fact that I'm really starting to lose power when accelerating. I've been a reader of these forums for a while, and I noticed black smoke coming out the back when I hit the accelerator so I figured it's probably an intercooler hose since (wouldn't you know it) I had just ordered the Samco's a day ago and was waiting for them to arrive, I also ordered a new hose from the air box to the intercooler because I figured I might as well replace them all. Wouldn't you know it, the bottom of the intercooler hose where it connects to the turbo had been torn and was sucking air and blowing oil. I stopped at a NAPA, they didn't have the hose, and Chrysler wanted $120 for the hose 2 days later. I bought some of the hose repair tape (the 500 degree self-sticking type) took the hose out, checked the intercooler hose on the passenger side as well as the intake hose, and only found issues with the intake hose. I used the tape to cover up the tears and the soft rubber and put some more of the tape around the intercooler where the hose attached, re-attached the hose, and put the hose clamp over the tape/hose combination. PROBLEM SOLVED! No more tapping sound, no more rattling, turbo sounds good, I have power again! I figure I will continue my trip, take it easy, and drive home in the morning as planned, park it, and wait for the new Samco's and intake hoses to arrive, and there won't be any problem. I'm driving back home today, and the rattling starts again, so I figure the tape has come off, or whatever and I'm going to have to leave the Jeep and come back and fix it when I have the hoses. So as I'm limping to the next exit to park and call my wife (who is totally UNPLEASED at this vehicle anyways) the Jeep is running totally like crap and really sounds like the timing belt slipped a tooth or something, I mean really running poorly, so I shut it down. That was a mistake, because it was really hard to start again, and I limped it about 500 foot to a gas station parking lot and starting taking things apart. The hose has a huge hole in it now around the tape and a piece of it has actually broken off and is god knows where, probably in my turbo. I found engine oil on my air filter, so I can only assume my turbo is now toast. The engine was over a quart low on oil, but I replaced that with a short jaunt to the parts store (conveniently right across the street, how often does that happen?) A friend who is a diesel mechanic (not a CRD mechanic though) said that he has seen diesel engines that run like that before and it was a turbo. I could start the engine and drive it across the parking lot to keep it there until I can get it towed home. Questions: 1. Do you think it's the turbo, would it make it run that bad and possibly eat off a quart of oil if it went out? 2. Does anyone rebuild them or would I be better served getting a new one? Possible Vendors? 3. Thanks, you guys are still the best, appreciate all the advice. 4. Do you think it's something worse? |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Hexus, Yeah it kinda sounds like you have a failed turbo. Sorry. The good news is that it is fixable. I would not try to drive it any further. A large amount of oil in the air filter housing is not a good sign in my opinion. Before you condemn the unit, take off the fresh air hose at the turbo inlet. Reach in and grab the nut in the middle of the opening and try to move it fore and aft and up and down. Is there much movement? More than 1/16" to 1/8" either way? If yes, then, yes, failed turbo. Also, is there damage to the compressor wheel? Do the fins look like they have been chewed on? If all this is a "No", then, I'm at a loss. No, the turbos ARE NOT rebuildable, at least not through Garrett, the turbo manufacturer. I would not trust other sources that say they can rebuild yours. A source for a new-in-the-box turbo is Diesel Injection Service in Louisville, KY. P/N 763360-5001S should cost you in the $1000.00 range or so with taxes and shipping. Call them at 1-877-361-2531. |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Sounds like a rash of turbos. Mine just went, possibly from pieces of broken glow plug. I got mine from IDParts. Corey is great to deal with and they stand behind their parts. Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
X2 on the turbo play check. On a good turbo there will be slight fore/aft play and no more than a hint, if that, of side to side play. IDParts (http://idparts.com/catalog/index.php?cP ... 8pp6r89832) price on a turbo is $1,120. Check my comments on the swap at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71962&p=756214&hilit=turbo#p756214 and you might look at the chat and links at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71884&p=756405&hilit=turbo#p756405 for some other turbo insight. I would not drive it until you check for turbo play and you might also want to check timing. A quick check on the latter can be done with a 6mm long shaft allen key (see 05 FSM for how) and a couple of bolts with the appropriate length and thread size (sorry I don't have thread info but see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71949&p=756009&hilit=+bolt#p756009 for links to pictures of appropriate bolts and cam pin dimensions) with the tips ground to somewhat of a point. Oil on the intake side of the air filter is a sign of nothing that I know of as intake air is only supplied from just behind the grill (i.e. there is no source of oil unless it's from outside the vehicle unlike some gas engines that dump CCV or PCV air into the air filter box). Oil on the turbo side of the filter would also be a bit odd although I suppose it's possible for oil mist to somehow get back that far if the airbox to turbo hose is torn but... |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Anyone have any opinions about Pure Turbo? http://www.pureturbos.com They have a really good rep so far, and say they can rebuild for $325/$425. Only 1 complaint in past 12 months, and this guys is bitching after 2 days that he doesn't have it back, is this legit? Last one they sold is Oct 3rd, they've sold 10 so far, anyone on here bought one or heard of someone who has? Papa? SirSam? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
No opinion to offer other than Garrett won't rebuild Garrett variable vane turbos and won't sell parts to do so. Read into that what you will |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Hexus, Straight up, I used to earn my living as a mechanic; I won't bore you with the details. In the shops where I worked, when a customer declined repairs in the manner that was suggested, we typically would just shake our heads and say: "It ain't sittin' in my driveway!" As a group, we have given you two (2) seperate options for the purchase of a proper turbo for your CRD. Choosing not to exercise either of those options is certainly your choice. You're on your own. |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Buy a BRAND NEW, not a rebuilt turbo. Get the original Garrett. Anything else is playing with fire on an already finicky engine that would be very expensive to replace... |
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| Author: | geordi [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Dude... The replies here echo what I already told you in the PM I replied to. Let me add to that with this collection of expensive facts: Engine #1 failed after turbo failure, and BECAUSE of turbo failure. $8000 by the time all the dust settled. Turbo #2 died at 119k or so. Tried rebuilding it myself, with what seemed appropriate parts. Center cartridge lasted less than 50 miles. Enter turbo #3, which was actually a combination of a pristine center cartridge (that I had bought new with bad VNT vanes in the rear housing) and the clean rear housing from turbo #2 with working VNT. Engine #2 failed (not due to turbo failure) without running low on oil OR having low oil pressure. The bottom end on these engines DOES NOT SURVIVE oil or turbo related failures for long if you keep screwing with it! Be cheap if you want... But as Hoosier says - you are on your own. The members here KNOW from whence they speak. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
A cheap turbo on a $9000 engine is poor economy. Spend the bucks on a good new turbo, and then: - spend the bucks on good oil; -spend the bucks to change it frequently; -Spend the time to cool the turbo down; -Check the turbo shaft play at 25,000 mile intervals, or after you lose a glow plug. Most turbo failures are the result of either FOD or progressive wear on the shaft/bearing resulting from poor lubrication, which usually results from the wrong oil, or lack of cooling/warmup. -Me, I'd change to SS glow plugs myself, but that's me. I prefer to avoid problems rather than fix them.. If you spend the money on doing things right the first time you will save much more than that over the long haul just in saved fuel costs. Gasser Liberty gets 17 mpg highway; diesels get 27-30+ or a net savings of >35% in fuel cost. Over 200,000 miles, this amounts to a lot of money.. At $3.69 for gas and $3.85 for diesel, this amounts to $15,000 in fuel cost savings for 200k miles. Keep in mind, too, that at 200K the gasser will be nearing EOL, and the diesel will run on, IF properly maintained. That does not take into account the significant performance edge offered by the CRD, nor the ability to adapt to other fuels in emergencies. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Alright, so I listened to everyone here, and I understand yall's concern about me and it's appreciated. Rebuilding isn't a good option, understood. You also have to understand that I just bought $300 worth of hoses for this $#@$ thing and I don't have $1100 laying around for a new turbo. I think I found an alternative, in a used turbo from another member here who upgraded to a GDE Stage II, that will work in the interim until I can save to get a new one. Now I'm just worried that I damaged something else getting it to somewhere where I could tow it home and this is going to be even more costly once I get a working turbo on it. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
LMWatBullRun wrote: A cheap turbo on a $9000 engine is poor economy.
Spend the bucks on a good new turbo, and then: - spend the bucks on good oil; Yeah, I've only ever used Mobil 1 0w40 -spend the bucks to change it frequently; Every 5000 Miles, with Wix Filters -Spend the time to cool the turbo down;Yeah, hard lesson learned here. -Check the turbo shaft play at 25,000 mile intervals, or after you lose a glow plug. Most turbo failures are the result of either FOD or progressive wear on the shaft/bearing resulting from poor lubrication, which usually results from the wrong oil, or lack of cooling/warmup. Lack of cooling at shutdown. -Me, I'd change to SS glow plugs myself, but that's me. I prefer to avoid problems rather than fix them..I already have Etecnu's, check sig. If you spend the money on doing things right the first time you will save much more than that over the long haul just in saved fuel costs. Gasser Liberty gets 17 mpg highway; diesels get 27-30+ or a net savings of >35% in fuel cost. Over 200,000 miles, this amounts to a lot of money.. At $3.69 for gas and $3.85 for diesel, this amounts to $15,000 in fuel cost savings for 200k miles. Keep in mind, too, that at 200K the gasser will be nearing EOL, and the diesel will run on, IF properly maintained. Yeah, I've done all that except the shut down cooling for the turbo, didn't realize until too late That does not take into account the significant performance edge offered by the CRD, nor the ability to adapt to other fuels in emergencies. That's why I bought it in the first place, 6 years ago. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
That is an exceedingly valid fear, unfortunately. What kind of noises was it making, and from where in the engine bay? Describe them as fully as you can - I am a sound designer by training, and obviously I have listened to my engine fall apart twice. In general - higher pitched noises and scraping sounds are the turbo, and not catastrophic to the engine PROVIDED that it never ran low on oil. However this is not guaranteed. Lower pitched noises and lower in the body are almost certainly the crankshaft and rod bearings - That IS catastrophic and should never be ignored. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
It just sounded like something was clicking loudly when I pressed the accelerator to try and get horsepower. It was higher pitched. Also it never RAN LOW on oil, I was about 3/4 of a quart below perfect when I got her stopped but I immediately replaced that. So yeah, I lost some oil, but nothing terribly damaging (I hope). |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Did the noise continue at idle, or only under power? If it can't be localized better than "it came from the engine bay" then I have to suggest that it could be the same kind of tapping that my engine had - listen to the video in the "tapping from top end" thread that I linked. I'll try to find that and link it here as well. The problem is - That was a rod bearing failing on my engine for a SECOND TIME and it failed without ever running low on oil either. Also without an associated turbo failure or even low oil pressure. It just failed and punched the block. Here is the video: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5447172/jeep-engine.mov edit - fixed the link. |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Geordi is the man for the noise issues, he has certainly had his unfortunate share. The good, used turbo is a GREAT option for you, go for it. My suggestion is to replace the turbo and see what noises remain, if any. You gotta get rid of that current noise maker first. Make sure too that the oil supply and drain lines are clear of any coked oil. If in doubt, change them. I truly hope that you get it running soon. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Hexus wrote: I already have Etecnu's, check sig. Mea Culpa. Sorry, I missed that. Hard to see from where I was way up on my soapbox.  I apologise for being so doctrinaire, but there have been a number of folks who have learned the hard way that this engine does not tolerate half measures, and I hated to see yet another person re-learn that lesson. Once you have the turbo sorted out, check back around and let us know how it goes. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
I would like to add to this post. This whole time, the CEL NEVER came on. It still isn't on. My engine runs like utter doo doo at the moment (I'm not 100% sure it's JUST the turbo, I think the timing belt skipped some teeth). Anyways, is that normal for the CEL not to come on at all when something like all of this happens? I do have the GDE ECO tune. (Although I'm not sure this would effect anything.) Thoughts? Similar Stories? |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Also, I had just recently got fuel before this started, and a mechanic friend says if I got some crappy fuel that water in the fuel line would cause the engine to behave like I'm saying it is and wouldn't throw a CEL. Anyone know anything about this? |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I "THINK" my turbo crapped out. |
Hi Hexus, Allow me to also add my apologies for the hammer that I brought down recently. Admittedly, I don't have a $1000 for a new turbo either. I would have to seriously deficit spend in order to replace mine if it were to blow--and I HATE deificit spending. But I would really hate to have to spend even more money on an engine replacement following a turbo adventure that went badly and was against the better advise of others. I didn't want to see someone else go down that path either. So, please know that I really did have in mind the best path for you, albeit a somewhat expensive one. For me, if given the choice of a new turbo or a new engine, and I'd have to go into debt for both, I'll take the new turbo. Now, as to your current scenario. Unless you have over 100k miles, I kinda doubt that you have an issue with your timing belt. Slipping a tooth on these Italian mistresses typically results in broken rocker arms and a non-running engine. Yours at least runs, although poorly. Question: Where did you get your fuel last? The majority of the time, I buy my diesel at a BP that sees alot of volume. If you have bad fuel, contaminated with whatever, then yes, it will run like crap. It can do damage to the injectors and CP3 injection pump; VERY expensive parts to replace. It would be best to drain the fuel, change the fuel filter and start fresh. I would not run the fuel any longer than necessary. Question #2: Did you by chance put in unleaded? It has been known to happen, even by those who have used diesel on a regular basis. I know that I have to double check myself at times. It is not a hard mistake to make. Hope this helps. |
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