I'm looking at having my timing belt changed on my 2005 CRD with just under 100k and have a quote from a local (metro Denver) dealer for $260 for the labor. I've considered doing it myself, but I really don't think I'll have the time and don't want to worry about buying or borrowing the timing pins, etc. Their total quote is $654.06 including parts. This includes the timing belt (part 5142579AA @ $229) and a gasket kit (5019861AA @ $103). They would add another $130 for the water pump on top of that for a total of $784.06.

I found the Gates T336 timing belt on Amazon for $66.82, plus a remanufactured water pump at Advance for $56.59. I'm leaning towards buying the parts myself and providing them to the dealer to install. I lose out on the warranty, but I save about $235.

I've done a lot of research, but it's all just reading and watching videos, so for all intents and purposes, you can consider me a noob.

My questions are these:

I've read several posts on TB changes and watched most of (admittedly, not all) the YouTube series by COrobotchicken and I don't recall mention of needing to replace the gaskets. It makes sense that you would, but I want to confirm with the community here that it is recommended.

From the video, if I remember correctly, there were two idler pulleys that should be replaced. 1. Is that right? 2. How much am I looking at for those parts? 3. Do you have a source?

What else should be addressed while they are in there?

Does anyone think the extra $235 (more if pulleys, etc. are needed) is worth it for the warranty?

Looking to get this done soon as the 100k mark is fast approaching. Thanks!

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

That price is a steal!

My local dealers quoted $2,000+.

_________________
2005 Limited CRD

What about a thermostat? Link

I should also mention that I have been experiencing a couple issues that may or may not be related.

1. It is difficult to maintain a certain speed when I'm between about 30 and 45 mph due to the throttle being very touchy or almost "confused." Very light application of the throttle results in the car either accelerating slightly or just cruising. It cycles every couple seconds from accelerating slightly to cruising (maintaining speed), even with steady throttle application. This is exacerbated somewhat by using cruise control.

2. This winter, I noticed that in cold weather (maybe below freezing), the vehicle would never get up to full operating temp. It would hover at a little above 1/4 on the gauge (I should have taken a temp reading with my OBD2 reader) and the heater would blow warm air hot enough to heat the cabin, but it would take a long time to get to that point (at least 10, maybe 15 mins) and the heat would never get truly hot. *Granted, this was almost entirely highway driving.* In warm weather, the gauge usually sits just a little below 1/2.

I mention #2 because it kind of sounds like a thermostat issue to me, so that might apply to my comment in the OP about replacing it.

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

Yikes. I've gotten several quotes just over $1,000, so this one under $700 made me start considering letting someone else do it.

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

When something is too good to be true it usually isn't; just saying. I don't know what "book" time for a dealer on the TB job is for sure but IIRC it's like 5 hrs and another 2 for the water pump. If that's correct their labor rate is way below any dealer labor rate I've ever heard of.

What needs doing (iD Parts has a decent price less serp belt although you might be able to do better shopping for individual parts):
1. new serpentine belt (it's got to come off so unless the one on there is newish best replace now and it's no extra labor) and new timing belt.
2. both timing belt idlers - current ones are probably ok if not leaking grease but if you are that far in there the idlers are cheap. Shouldn't add to labor; undo 2 bolts and redo 2 bolts
3. a new timing belt tensioner is a good idea; same labor as above
4. gasket set is not worth the paper it's made of as part of a timing belt job but past chat indicates dealers tend to insist on it
5. my personal opinion is do not trust a reman CRD water pump unless there is a proven track record. Failures have occured and they tend to take out the belt and then the rockers. I'd strongly recommend an OEM pump. In any case that link takes you to what looks like just the front 1/2 of the pump, which is ok as that's the part that needs replacing and it's easier than doing the whole thing, but I think there is an "O"ring that's needed. Not sure as I've not done a water pump.

More to the point have you spoken to the service manager or tech as opposed to the service writer who likely knows nothing about mechanics and less than nothing about the CRD? Have you asked them exactly how many of these jobs have they done in the last 12 months; who they did them for; and if the mechanic that did the work is still there.

Frankly I think you would be better off subcontracting with Sir Sam who is not that far away.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Ask the dealer if the mechanic who would be doing the work has done a CRD timing belt? If yes? Several?

These Stealerships just want you in the door, then they put a inexperianced mechanic on the job. They mess things up and keep charging you more.

I would be more inclined to go with someone with several timing changes under their belt. If your not carefullly doing everything by the manual, you can get yourself in trouble fast. Break rockers and then add $2000 to the bill.

If you want a by the book install procedure PM me.

Good luck!!

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

I also heard 5 hours, but not specifically from this dealer. Who, BTW, is Pro Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram. They're a 5-Star dealer (the first, IIRC) and do a lot of business in the area. If there's a dealer here that would see a fair amount of CRDs, this would probably be it. That being said, I'll definitely follow up to see who's going to do the work and what kind of experience they have with CRD timing belts specifically.
Noted. I'll add that to the list.
Can you recommend a source for these?
If I end up going through the dealer, I'll try to convince them to skip the gaskets.
Napa has a couple new water pumps on their site, as well as some pump / timing component kits. Do you know whether the kit would be a good way to go? It looks like it contains the TB, WP, tensioner, and (one?) pulley.
Thanks - I didn't realize he is in CO. I sent him a PM to hopefully let him weigh in and see if he's interested in the work.

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

You can get the serp and timing belts from Amazon for a total of less than $100. Shop around for timing belt tensioner 5142798AA and timing belt idlers (2) 5142573AA; I have no clue who has the best prices. IDParts pkg price is pretty decent and has the merit of one stop shopping. I'm sure Sam is ok with using their parts but dealers can be sticky about owner supplied parts.

FYI other than Amazon be careful on pricing parts. Lots of apparently cheap places will really stick it to you on shipping and handling.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Sweet, thanks for the part #s. One thing I verified with the dealer is they have no problem using my parts; they just won't warranty any of it.

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

No surprise they won't warranty the parts although if a part fails and it's a Mopar part from another Mopar dealer I'd love to have that discussion. The important point is they must warranty their "labor" in the sense that they warrant they did the job "right" so if the TB job goes south because they did not lock the timing correctly or torque things down correctly it's their problem not your "parts" problem.

If they won't do that I'd run for the hills.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Almost all places are like that,if you bring yoru own parts there is no warranty period to include labor.Most places will not even do a job with customer supplied parts as it has become a huge liabilty from most(okay 99.9%) bring in cheap junk parts.


And yes there are scammers that sell "OEM parts" that are not OEM parts but place them in OEM parts boxes with OEM #'s.Most places like fleabay and even some amazon vendors do this pratice,granted it's mostly on fleabay.

That $130 figure for the water pump doesn't sound right, the last pump I bought from them(Pro) with my 25% MSRP discount came in right at $200.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

DO NOT HAVE A DEALER DO YOUR TIMING BELT OR I'LL BE THE FIRST TO SAY "I TOLD YOU SO" and I promise to not be nice about it.

You will have NO warranty since you are providing parts. There is no incentive for tech to do it right and take his time. There are quite a few horror stories about engine failure occuring within several thousand miles of a TB job and dealership blames everything but the work they just did meaning no warranty or new engine for a screwed up TB job.

Please don't be foolish. Be wise and have SirSam do the job for you and do it right. Spend the extra money for all new tensioners, waterpump, quality belt and any part that can fail. My roller/tensioner bearings were shot and leaking grease at 100k.

If I had the Miller tools, I'd do the TB belt for you for free and would rather donate my time instead of you risking serious engine issues form a dealer TB belt job. Since I don't have the tools, spend the $$ for Sir Sam to do the job.

The timing belt job isn't difficult if you have the Miller tools. My first timing belt job at 100k was done by Sir Sam while I watched and helped a bit. I was foolish and didn't install the water pump and it failed several months later. I borrowed a set of Miller Tools (thank you again for lending them to me) and replaced the water pump which involved the equivalent of a timing belt job.

Its not a difficult job but the hardest part is slipping the belt on the final pulley. It took a second set of hands for me to do it but I'm sure with practice, I can do it by myself.

Good luck.

There ARE dealer mechanics who can do the job. A guy local to me posted of a dealer mechanic who diagnosed broken rockers, replaced them, and completed TB job.

A mechanics abilities can be ascertained by asking if they have the FULL SET of Miller tools. A guy who has made that investment will likely know how to use them.

If you live on the front range, BY ALL MEANS have Sam do the job. I stopped by Fort Collins and he did mine in a few hours.

PS I removed the fan and shroud before I got there. It saved him a good bit of time.

_________________
'05 Sport CRD 107k miles. NOBODY knows everything.

If you brought your own parts to my shop, I will not accept the job. I would be liable if one of your parts failed even if I had you sign a waver. I would also have a problem with the reman water pump as there has been some out there that failed. Trying to save little money could cost you to repair to an expensive engine. That dealer was a good price but I would have them do the pulleys along with the water pump.

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

You are in Colorado - Sir Sam all the way, every day... And twice on Sunday!

Dealers are to be avoided like the plague they are.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

And, you need a thermostat to get your coolant temp back to normal. The dealer will not honor the ridiculously low price they quoted. It CLEARLY indicates they have NO experience with this job on a KJ CRD and I would RUN.

Check ID Parts prices for OEM parts (ONLY). Do NOT use anything but OEM water pump! (If water pump fails before NEXT timing belt service, the pistons hit the valves.)

Replace TB idlers and tensioner, serpentine belt and idlers.

Trust us, everyone here would have Sam do our TB jobs, if we could.

I may move to CO, just for that alone.

DOC

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Ltd Detroit TrueTrac Bilsteins G2 GDE "HOT" ECU GDE TCM "Tow Tune" "euro" TC SEGR Weeks Elbow New HG at 130K ARPs Clean CAT aFe Filter Magnaflow Exhaust EHM Cumminos In-Tank Lift Pump Hayden Fan Clutch Nylon Fan VH Enabled with GDE lower shutoff point Recalibrated Temp Gauge Tekonsha Prodigy Sears P-1 ZDDP

Alldatadiy suggests that timing belt only change is 5.3 shop hrs adding 0.1 hours for each of the following;
R&R idler pulley;
R&R tensioner;
R&R camshaft gears (one or both);
R&R crankshaft gear;
R&R injection pump gear......
R & R water pump would add about 0.4 hours.
Giving a total of about ....6.2 - 6.5 hours.
R&R = Remove and Replace.
If you know what you are doing - about 5 would be the number as has been well said. I imagine a shop should be using similar figures so that is a really low labour cost. I think perhaps it implies they don't know what is involved by underquoting.

Shrewd and rude, Drewd dude.

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. Work and personal to-do lists have exploded this week, so I'm sorry for the delay in responding.
Indeed.
That's a good idea. To include the grill and bumper fascia or were you able to get at the fan and shroud without removing those?
I'll go with the Mopar water pump. Any issues with a non-OEM thermostat? There's a $60 difference there (at least through IDParts). I know Mopar is preferred, but unfortunately $$ is more of a driver than I'd prefer.

So I'm back to do it myself or go pay Sir Sam a visit in Ft. Collins. I'm confident enough to do it myself with the proper guide and tools, it's just a matter of time & money. Anyone here in the area willing to rent the tools to me? Sir Sam himself, perhaps? Is it just the three locking pins and cam gear holder? Tensioner tool, too?

_________________
Justin
'05 Liberty Limited CRD | Purchased in May 2012

The timing belt job is doable from a cold start although I was glad I helped geordi on one before I did it myself. That said I'm not sure I'd want to go in and do the water pump from a cold start (e.g. no experience).

Other comments:
1. non OEM tstat should be ok as there is no bearing hence nothing that can cause significant engine harm if it fails and they typically fail open any way.
2. with the right tools you can pull the fan and fan shroud without removing all that front end stuff. See http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html for some hints on how to including how to hold things in place to get the fan nut to start to come off (reminds me if you don't have a Hayden 2905 fan clutch that's worth doing) as it's on there really tight. Shroud is held on by 2 bolts - don't misplace them as length is critical to avoid punching hole(s) in the tank). Best stick a towel or piece of cardboard between fan and radiator to avoid radiator damage while pulling the fan and shroud out as a unit (FYI you have to tilt the shroud left/right to get the bolt ears to clear and best to use zip ties to retain the nuts in their recesses especially if driving with shroud removed). While the shroud is out do a shroud mod to make future access easier (viewtopic.php?f=98&t=64278&p=709322#p709322)

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs