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Very high quality shots of worn rockers
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72759		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  crd260 [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Very high quality shots of worn rockers
https://picasaweb.google.com/105347957555727890999/Dec72012LibertyCRDRollerFollowerWear#5819372502829969746

obviously there's a forward and backwards button there to look through em'

this gives a little bit clearer picture than my crappy youtube vid.
Author:  Goglio704 [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Thanks for posting that. Wow. Worth a thousand words for sure...
Author:  Dennis MacGyver [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Can you show a new set for comparison as I really don't know what I'm looking at ?
Author:  TJ2 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Wow, were you using M1 0/40 the whole time?
Author:  crd260 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Quote:
Wow, were you using M1 0/40 the whole time?


yup

EGR for the lose

everyone needs to be buying the ECUtune from GDE


I actually talked to Keith today, and he is making me a custom "hot, but still limit your TQ to 260Ft/lbs while in TC lockup" tune...
Author:  racertracer [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Incredible.
Author:  Big Montana [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
crd260 wrote:
EGR for the lose



I'm sorry, does this mean your EGR was ON the whole time? The idea then is that the extra soot caused this damage?
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
crd260 wrote:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105347957555727890999/Dec72012LibertyCRDRollerFollowerWear#5819372502829969746

obviously there's a forward and backwards button there to look through em'

this gives a little bit clearer picture than my crappy youtube vid.


WOW! that pictorial is worth 10,000 words! My vote for post of the month.

Now I am really really interested in pressing out the pins on my old rockers and seeing what they look like. Can new pins be had?
Author:  racertracer [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
[quote="LMWatBullRun Can new pins be had?[/quote]

Good question.... or manufactured by a local American shop.

crd260, could you give us a little more detail about your CRD, like mileage, year, Oil change intervals, any modifications like "off road modification" or the "elephant hose modification"?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
crd260 wrote:
Quote:
Wow, were you using M1 0/40 the whole time?

everyone needs to be buying the ECUtune from GDE


Don't forget proper oil too :SOMBRERO:
I've had a GDE tune since June, 2009 at 26,000 miles and have always used Either Shell Rotella T6 or Mobil-1 TDT 5-40 and after the first few changes my oil stays clean for over 1k miles before getting the least bit black and it never gets as black as it previously did :2cents:

As for getting "new pins" remember the rest of the assembly is worn also. Why chance it :dizzy:
Author:  racertracer [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
I wonder if it would be worth it for these guys " http://www.compcams.com "to have a look at the worn out parts to see what they have to say about it.
Author:  RJM [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
WOW! That type of wear screams lack of or improper lubrication.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
RJM wrote:
WOW! That type of wear screams lack of or improper lubrication.


And that can be caused by the very small oil passages in the head being clogged with soot because of the oil's inability to handle the large amounts of soot stock CRD's have :banghead:
CI4 PLUS rated oils were brought out just for that reason :BANANA:
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Joe Romas wrote:
crd260 wrote:
Quote:
Wow, were you using M1 0/40 the whole time?

everyone needs to be buying the ECUtune from GDE


Don't forget proper oil too :SOMBRERO:
I've had a GDE tune since June, 2009 at 26,000 miles and have always used Either Shell Rotella T6 or Mobil-1 TDT 5-40 and after the first few changes my oil stays clean for over 1k miles before getting the least bit black and it never gets as black as it previously did :2cents:

As for getting "new pins" remember the rest of the assembly is worn also. Why chance it :dizzy:


When I do the detailed post mortem of my used rockers I will look at ALL the wear surfaces. If, as CRD 260 stated, the only notable wear point in the assembly was the pin, then I think it would be worthwhile to get new pins. Looking at the lube path is an excellent idea too, because I know I saw wide variation in wear on these. I may need to get some long pipecleaners.......
Author:  crd260 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
new pic added at the end, explains everything. (click next until you get to #7)

~130K, mobil 1 0w40 @ 6,000 kms like clockwork.....

EGR = hell on oil (particulate/soot buildup / oxidization due to higher temperature)
Rocker pins = not hard enough

put the two together and that's what you get.

here's the low resolution youtube vid of how to get them apart....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEKrfFQdjQg

For those of you following my other post "rockers, wow" you know the rest of my details. :D
Author:  crd260 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Also guys, some more info for you:

I Called these guys in the UK http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/

I Talked to George, the owner.

He's wrenched on hundreds of these motors.

One thing he told me: their "voyager" I think it's our "grand caravan" uses this motor and is used for airport / taxi runs.

he said it's not uncommon to see these motors hit 500,000+ kms and still have the valve train be serviceable.

He's also selling me a bunch of new OEM VM parts for a fraction of what they're worth in north america (even online)

I havn't finalized my order yet, so I don't know about shipping, but I can tell you this much:

Quote:
Rockers and lifters are an assembly complete with hydraulic tappets £14.30 each x 16 = £228.80

7 volt metal glow plugs £18.00 each x 4 = £72.00



The price for the timing belt kit is £155.65. (Gates belt)

Timing belt kit £178.45 (Goodyear belt, original belt fitted on the production line)
Water pump assembly including gasket £148.00.

Serpentine belt (non genuine Gates belt) £40.00

Serpentine belt from the Jeep dealership (genuine) £80.00


these prices are in pounds, it's about 1.5 dollars to a pound

228 pounds = 342 dollars... not bad for 16 lifters and rockers
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
I agree with Joe, given the pin wear and likely related wear on other components don't even try just new pins. Now new rockers whose pins have been replaced by better ones might be worth considering. Those UK prices on lifters look decent, factoring in exchange, but the belts are way over the top on price by US standards.
Author:  crd260 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Quote:
I'm sorry, does this mean your EGR was ON the whole time? The idea then is that the extra soot caused this damage?

:BINGO:


http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/349/egr-oil-diesel-engines
Quote:
Engine and oil manufacturers are striving to accommodate the harsh environment brought on by the use of EGR systems.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
crd260 wrote:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/349/egr-oil-diesel-engines
Quote:
Engine and oil manufacturers are striving to accommodate the harsh environment brought on by the use of EGR systems.

This information seems to be about 7 years old :furious:
Not one word about CI4 PLUS that as near as I can determine here way around 2007 a full 5 years ago. There's other good reading here about soot and our problem.
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/feature ... ils_adding
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very high quality shots of worn rockers
Wow... glad I am running the ORM on mine. I have been since 47K, now at 83K.
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