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CRD coolant issues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72776		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  CRD coolant issues
hi all,
My 2006 CRD has been having some coolant issues. For a few months I was having to fill the coolant back up twice a month or so. And as of the last two weeks this has increased to twice a week. I have also been expeirencing starting issues.
Today my KJ-CRD refused to start at all, I popped the hood and sure enough there was no coolant left, despite me filling it up entirely this morning (five hours ago).
So here I stand, leaned up against the hood of my beloved CRD wondering what the hell went wrong.
I'm at just over 100k miles and keep up with fuel filter and oil changes.
Anyone experienced similar issues?
Any insights as to potential causes or solutions?

Thanks for your help,
Russell Woods
Author:  Drewd [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
Coolant loss in the amount must be visibly going somewhere. is there a puddle under the vehicle? Is your oil level rising or constant? Is there "steam" leaking out of your radiator?
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
The only thing I've noticed is fluid leaking out from the front end of the muffler, though I may have noticed some fluid on the ground under the radiator.

And lots and lots of white smoke comes out of the exhaust when I try to start it.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
In order to further diagnose your issue at long distance, please respond to the following:

What coolants did you add when refilling the reservoir?

Did you at any time notice fluid on the driver side of the coolant reservoir?

Is the oil level higher than it was? Notably lower than it was?

Have you had any service done to the vehicle within the last 6 months? If so, what?

When you fill the reservoir, where does the fluid leak out? If it empties within 5 hours thats a notable leak.....

When idling and filling the reservoir, did you notice any exhaust smell from the tank? bubbling?

When you stop to fill the reservoir, was there pressure on the tank? Any oil visible in the coolant?

Off topic- Have you changed the timing belt yet?

FWIW, this sounds like either a head gasket or a head crack.
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
What coolants did you add when refilling the reservoir?

Water Only

Did you at any time notice fluid on the driver side of the coolant reservoir?

Not that I've noticed, just for clarification: are you referring to the section of the reservoir that is not as deep as the rest?

Is the oil level higher than it was? Notably lower than it was?

After having the vehicle towed back to my house I checked the oil level, and yes, it is extremely high, well past the gauge.
This means the head gasket is blown right?

Have you had any service done to the vehicle within the last 6 months? If so, what?

I changed the oil and filter, and replaced the fuel filter about 5,000 miles ago.

When you fill the reservoir, where does the fluid leak out? If it empties within 5 hours thats a notable leak.....

Until yesterday I hadn't noticed the fluid leaking out, I refilled the reservoir today and still haven't noticed leaking yet. But I also haven't been able to get the engine to turn over.

When idling and filling the reservoir, did you notice any exhaust smell from the tank? bubbling?

No.

When you stop to fill the reservoir, was there pressure on the tank? Any oil visible in the coolant?

There has been pressure on the tank every time I've opened the reservoir with the engine hot. There has been no oil visible in the coolant.

Off topic- Have you changed the timing belt yet?

I have not had the timing belt changed.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
What coolants did you add when refilling the reservoir?

>Water Only

OK, you evidently know about the HOAT coolant incompatibility with others, thats good.
Make sure you use the specified coolant...

Did you at any time notice fluid on the driver side of the coolant reservoir?

>Not that I've noticed, just for clarification: are you referring to the section of the reservoir that is not as deep as the rest?

It's the shallower section on the right as you look in the engine bay


Is the oil level higher than it was? Notably lower than it was?

>After having the vehicle towed back to my house I checked the oil level, and yes, it is extremely high, well past the gauge.
This means the head gasket is blown right?

Probably, yes, although it could be a cracked block or cracked head, but something bad is happening/has happened. It is likely that when you drain the oil that there will be significant water in the pan. That is a definitive sign that things have gone badly awry.


Have you had any service done to the vehicle within the last 6 months? If so, what?

>I changed the oil and filter, and replaced the fuel filter about 5,000 miles ago.

OK.

When you fill the reservoir, where does the fluid leak out? If it empties within 5 hours thats a notable leak.....

>Until yesterday I hadn't noticed the fluid leaking out, I refilled the reservoir today and still haven't noticed leaking yet. But I also haven't been able to get the engine to turn over.

DO NOT TRY TO CRANK THE ENGINE AT THIS POINT.

I recommend that you-
-Drain the coolant completely, including draining the lower hose;
-Drain the oil and fill it with fresh new lube oil to reduce corrosion;
-DIsconnect the battery so nobody tries to crank it.
-If it were me, I'd try to get some protectant into the cylinders to prevent rust, either by removing the glow plugs or the injectors and squirting PB blaster in.

When idling and filling the reservoir, did you notice any exhaust smell from the tank? bubbling?

>No.

OK.

When you stop to fill the reservoir, was there pressure on the tank? Any oil visible in the coolant?

>There has been pressure on the tank every time I've opened the reservoir with the engine hot. There has been no oil visible in the coolant.

OK.

Off topic- Have you changed the timing belt yet?

I have not had the timing belt changed.

Well, now is your chance! :?

If you are capable of and interested in investigating on your own, I would plan on an overhaul with gasket change in the near future.
If you don't want to tackle it yourself, find a GOOD diesel mechanic and make sure he knows about the quirks of this engine. Holler if you want advise!
Author:  kjjet [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
Fluid loss that quick, WOW! Blown head gasket? Cracked Head? Not Good. Do not try to start. You will just do more damage. Tow it to a good shop. There is a list of known good CRD shops. Where do you live?
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
I live in Nor Cal, Sonoma County to be specific.

The list of known mechanics doesn't have anyone in my area.

I have a pretty good rapport with Santa Rosa Diesel, they've fixed some steering column problems for me in the past, along with changing out some major parts.

Once they've competed the head gasket change and replaced the timing belt they will totally go on the list of recommended CRD mechanics!
Author:  racertracer [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
Consider using the ARP studs when rebuilding the motor.

I had a head gasket leak in my previous CRD that reappeared 3 months after it was repaired.

If I knew back then what is said about diesels with head gasket problems not going away, I would have used the ARP head studs and alleviated the possibility of the problem from coming back.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
croatanpathfinder wrote:
I live in Nor Cal, Sonoma County to be specific.

The list of known mechanics doesn't have anyone in my area.

I have a pretty good rapport with Santa Rosa Diesel, they've fixed some steering column problems for me in the past, along with changing out some major parts.

Once they've competed the head gasket change and replaced the timing belt they will totally go on the list of recommended CRD mechanics!


The use of the locating pins for both the cams and the flex plate is something of a black art, and given the need to disassemble the top end, I suggest that you pay them to review the procedure and contact somebody that knows what they are doing. Sir Sam, Geordi, PapaIndigo, Warp2Diesel, or MRausch82, among others, all know what they are about. Sam's in CO and Geordi is in south GA.

Also, make SURE that they have the cam gear holding special tool and that they use it. If it were me, I would order the tool, show them how and when to use it, and mark it so that I could be sure that it was used. This is a CRD specific tool and it is unlikely that they have it now. If they say that they do, I would ask to see it. If they cannot show you the tool and are lying to you about having it, go elsewhere. LACK of this tool virtually guarantees major problems, and having a lying mechanic still more so. You can improvise many things, and I have, but not this.

The proper use of these tools and procedures are NOT OPTIONAL if you do not want to endure the 'mechanic/dealer hell' that so many here have related. Diesels in general and this engine in particular DO NOT TOLERATE half-assed semi-mechanics. :dizzy: This all sounds over the top, I am sure, but believe me when I tell you that if you don't take these recommendations to heart now, you will later.

If you decide to go with ARP studs, PM me for more detail. I'm one of two people I know who have done it, although I am sure there are others, and the only one I know who has used stock studs. Good luck!
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
I just heard back from my mechanic.

It looks like the engine was completely flooded, and the turbo is a mess.

Everything was full of water.

My mechanic is saying that it needs a new engine and a new turbo, and that this will cost $9,500 to fix.

I've got 105,000 miles on this car and I love my KJ CRD like crazy.

I don't want to scrap it but it appears I might not have any other option.

Any ideas?

Should I try to find another mechanic and get another price?

Should I try to sell the car for parts on this forum?

Everything but the engine and turbo is in great shape.

Any advice would be appreciated...

Thanks,
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
croatanpathfinder wrote:
I just heard back from my mechanic.
It looks like the engine was completely flooded, and the turbo is a mess.
Everything was full of water.
My mechanic is saying that it needs a new engine and a new turbo, and that this will cost $9,500 to fix. I've got 105,000 miles on this car and I love my KJ CRD like crazy.
I don't want to scrap it but it appears I might not have any other option.
Any ideas?
Should I try to find another mechanic and get another price?
Should I try to sell the car for parts on this forum?
Everything but the engine and turbo is in great shape.
Any advice would be appreciated...
Thanks,


Try carparts.com for a used engine. Should be able to get a good one for around 4 to 5 k.
Author:  racertracer [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
Where are you?

If you want your CRD fixed correctly, then contact Sirsam, he can procure parts at a reasonable price and can also repair the engine.

I believe he is in Colorado.

Making the right decisions now, is critical in keeping costs down and properly repairing your vehicle.
Author:  kjjet [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
croatanpathfinder wrote:
I just heard back from my mechanic.
It looks like the engine was completely flooded, and the turbo is a mess.
Everything was full of water.
My mechanic is saying that it needs a new engine and a new turbo, and that this will cost 9,500 to fix.
I've got 105,000 miles on this car and I love my KJ CRD like crazy.
I don't want to scrap it but it appears I might not have any other option.
Any ideas?
Should I try to find another mechanic and get another price?
Should I try to sell the car for parts on this forum?
Everything but the engine and turbo is in great shape.
Any advice would be appreciated...Thanks,


Ya...That was alot of water.

Your mechanic is most likely correct. It would cost more for him to rebuild it than replace. If the bearings ran with water, they could be damaged.

If you get it to someone who likes projects? and you have the time? The engine could be saved.

If not? Put a used engine in, or call the junk yard for a last tow? :dead:
Author:  cevans [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
I don't think the coolant got into the crankcase. It does not take much to hydrolock a diesel, less than an oz of fluid in the chamber would do it.

These motors are made to be rebuildable. Get more information, e-mail it to me at corey@idparts.com - I've been talking with VM Italy nearly daily so we may be able to piece the thing back together with just parts and avoid a 10,000 repair bill.
Author:  Big Montana [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
LMWatBullRun wrote:


The proper use of these tools and procedures are NOT OPTIONAL if you do not want to endure the 'mechanic/dealer hell' that so many here have related. Diesels in general and this engine in particular DO NOT TOLERATE half-assed semi-mechanics. :dizzy: This all sounds over the top, I am sure, but believe me when I tell you that if you don't take these recommendations to heart now, you will later.


Boy you are SOOO over the top. My certified dealer three miles down the road from the Chrysler Tech center "had the right tools" and they broke my belt during the change and then stripped the threads on my intake side cam locking bolt hole. I found out later that they had an improvised bolt to hold the cam in place. Jags! You need a good shop and you need to ask a lot of questions!
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
cevans wrote:
I don't think the coolant got into the crankcase. It does not take much to hydrolock a diesel, less than an oz of fluid in the chamber would do it.

These motors are made to be rebuildable. Get more information, e-mail it to me at corey@idparts.com - I've been talking with VM Italy nearly daily so we may be able to piece the thing back together with just parts and avoid a 10,000 repair bill.


THis is an offer I would not pass up.
Author:  croatanpathfinder [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
The final analysis is that the engine has a cracked head due to 'wear and tear'

According to my mechanic, the cost of a new head and the labor for installing it and cleaning up the engine will be about the same as the cost of a new engine.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
Are you in the states? If so where?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD coolant issues
The installation of a new head with TB parts should be about 3500
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