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 Post subject: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:52 pm 
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OK....I am officailly baffled!

Engine cold, turn key, watch glow plug light cycle (just seems to be a few seconds), turn key to start position and crank 10 -12 seocnds before engine fires.

Engine cold...so same as before but wait 90 seconds before trying to start....starts right up. So far so good right? It's like the glow plugs stay on longer after the light goes out (they do on my VW).

Here is where it gets weird:

Engine hot: SAME symptoms! If the engine is at operating temp it STILL takes 10 -12 seconds of cranking for it to fire. Wait 90 seconds with the ignition on before cranking and she fires up on the first or second compression stroke...

Lots of power while on the road and fuel filter was replaced about 1000 KM ago.

The long cranking seems to have snuck up on us. I recall this summer it taking a few extra 'cycles' to start.

Any ideas?


Last edited by DrNick on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:13 pm 
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How old's the battery?

on these beasts you have to turn on the computer - before the engine will start
it can spin all day long - but if the computer's not on it won't start.
(a starter motor doesn't care between 13.5 vs 10.5 volts - it'll just spin a little slower
a computer knows the difference between 12.5 and 12.49 volts.....)

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Have the battery checked for CCA's (cold cranking amps) if it's under 800 replace it.

Change the ASD Relay under the hood. (They don't usually last much over 6 years)

Check the glow plugs.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:01 am 
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The fact that you have the same cranking problem when hot seems to rule out the glow plugs.
As stated, check the battery first. Also check the battery terminals are clean and tight, the negative battery lead going to chassis is clean and tight and the engine grounding strap going from engine to chassis is clean and tight.

You can swap out the ASD relay with an identical one next to it.

Then there have been reports of:

Bad crank sensor or bad cam sensor.
Leaking injectors.

And of course air in the fuel line. :?


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:01 am 
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An upgraded fuel head (I use the racor that was intended for the CRuD), a lift pump, and a fresh battery, if not already done are in your future.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:40 am 
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Drewd wrote:
An upgraded fuel head (I use the racor that was intended for the CRuD), a lift pump, and a fresh battery, if not already done are in your future.

X2

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:19 am 
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OK Folks...here's the update:

Brand new Optima Red udnder the hood.....same issue. Here are a few things I've noted:

The problem was not affected by replacing the fuel filter (it was due anyway). The engine does not hesitate at all under hard acceleration so I don't think this is an air-in-fuel issue. I do still have the first gen filter head assembly though.

The issue started slowly...I noticed a slightly longer crank time (it would start on the third or fourth compression stroke as opposed to 'right away') and now it's 10-15 seconds....it's almost like somehting 'cuts in' and the engine fires right up. Could the ECU be holding off injecting fuel? So far as I know the ECU is stock, would a GDE tune help do you think?

I do use biodiesel in the summer months (commercially produced, good quality stuff) and that's when the problem started. At this point, I am chalking it up to coincidence though. If it were an IP/injector issue I'm inclined to think I'd be seeing other performance problems rather than just long crank time....and even that is circumvented by leaving the ignition on for 90 seconds before cranking....

Other from the rather odd starting issue....the engine runs fine. Lots of power, dencent fuel economy (I do need to clean the MAP sensor) and no scary noises.

Thoughts?

Doc


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:35 am 
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Doc,

How many miles on your fuel filter?

If there are more than 12,000 miles on your present filter with bio having run through it, then I would replace the fuel filter only. Keep the old head assembly intact but unconnected so that it doesn't burn a hole in the head assembly ..... the problem with the old head besides causing an air/fuel leak, is that it is also known for causing fires. So change it when you can, but test the fuel flow for now by replacing the fuel filter.

I really do think that it is a clogged fuel filter..... :2cents:

One more way to test it for air leaks is to pump the plunger at the fuel head before starting so that it is rock hard, if that fixes that slow starts then the whole fuel head assembly has to go.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:40 pm 
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I have been having a similar issue this winter. I really only notice the long crank times when it is below 35°F. I have the new GP's and the gen2 fuel head and I am still suspect of air in fuel. So far I have cut off and replaced the easy to get to QD fuel line connection near the fuel tank and that didn't help. When the jeep sits for some time in the cold I can pump the primer on the fuel head and bleed out air/fuel. Has anyone else with these symptoms tried to bleed the fuel head after a long cold night?

How about people without starting problems, have you checked to see if you get air out of the fuel head after a cold night? I am assuming that any air from the fuel head is bad regardless of if the jeep sits for some time!

I was going to drop the tank and get rid of the second connection also but I figure if I am going to go through the trouble of dropping the tank then I am going to throw in a lift pump while I am at it.

Just so happens I ordered the AIRTEx E7181M about 20 min ago from rock auto for about $125 shipped.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:25 pm 
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painemann wrote:
I have been having a similar issue this winter. I really only notice the long crank times when it is below 35°F.


Yeah, me too. I've been noticing long cranks when it's below -20°F :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Indeed, the glow plugs do stay on much longer than the indicator light. It is quite normal for the indicator to only light for a couple seconds even in cold weather, so the fact that your cranking time being shorter with the wait is to be expected.

Between you and me, I don't think you have a problem. Turn the key to on, count to 20 or so, fire it up and don't worry about it. If your battery weren't up to the job at hand, it would not crank fast enough to ever fire up.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:01 am 
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Racertracer: Fuel fiter has about 2500 miles on it maybe 500 of which were on B50 or so...I changed it during the transition back to dino foi rthe winter. I'll do the plunger pump test and report back. If it were a clogged filter/air in fuel would I not be having a loss of power or stubmling under hard acceleration? I will replace the filter head assy. as I didn't know about the whole 'catch on fire' things :) Is there a preferred vendor for it? How about an aftermarket part? even if it costs more, I prefer to support the innovators/tinkerers/tuners in this bisuness as opposed to the atuomotive giants...

Dirtmover: I see we live in the same city. Wanna meet for a coffee?

Doc


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32 am 
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DrNick wrote:
Racertracer: If it were a clogged filter/air in fuel would I not be having a loss of power or stubmling under hard acceleration?
Doc


Some of us experience it sporadically with an annoying bad surprise at hard acceleration.
other times it's just fine.

A simple inexpensive 4.5 gpm inline fuel lift pump mounted near the fuel filter, fixed my air in fuel problem. No more no less needed.

P.S. when you changed the old fuel filter, did you check under the fuel head assembly to see if the old gasket from the previous filter was still in place, stuck to the threaded part? If you didn't and it is still there, it's got to go. It is one of the main reasons for most of the air leeks.

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2005 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD - Totaled 3/19/2012 (Not at fault), towed to bone yard and sold at auction.
1997 Jeep Sahara, Hunter Green - 307,000m -
1983 MBenz 240D - garaged, midnight blue, showroom condition.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 CRD Long Crank Time...Sort Of ***UPDATE Post 6***
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Sounds like air in the fuel system to me. Bleed and prime the fuel head several times.

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