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The CRD drive line noise thread
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73673		 Page 6 of 8
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
APC9199 wrote:
I have a strange noise that occurs only when making a hard left turn at low to medium speeds. It is a consistent womp womp womp noise, but you can distinctly hear what sounds like roller bearings or interfering gears. I have replaced all four wheel bearings front and rear and the vehicle in general is quieter but this noise is still there and seems to be slowly getting worse. I am 75% sure the noise is coming from the front driver side. I have read a lot about the CV's and intermediate shafts going bad, so I tore the driver side apart today. Everything came apart like a dream, nothing seized, nothing jammed. I was able to pull the entire CV out by hand with a firm but gentle "pop" motion. Both ends move very freely and the boots are in great condition, no leaks, tears or wear. Is it possible that the splines are making that much noise with everything in such good condition?

I still have to take the passenger side apart to confirm that it is ok, but the boots look identical to the driver side so I am not confident that I'm going to find anything wrong.

Also, I get an occasional pop or clunk when turning hard at low speeds, which also seems to point to bad CV's...but I have no proof that either of them are bad at this point. What should I look at next (after the passenger side CV)? I really hate taking this thing to a shop and paying thousands for repairs that don't need to be done because he mechanic "thought" they knew what the problem was.

The only true way to fully inspect a CV joint is to take it apart and inspect all components; grease fluidity, balls, cage, inner and outer races. Based on your description, it certainly sounds like you have at least one bad or problematic CV joint making the noise... I have seen in the past the grease dry out on joints from age and then the balls wear grooves into the inner and outer races from lack of proper lubrication, the balls can also turn a darker color, and sometimes the ball cage can actually crack or break. :roll:
If grooves get worn into the races, the balls can make a popping noise when the joint is turned to a different angle than normal under load as the balls are forced to pass back and forth across the groves in the races. :(

This may be more information than you desire, but without teardown and inspection, I would suspect the outer CV joint on the drivers side in your case! :wink:
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
WWDiesel wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
I have a strange noise that occurs only when making a hard left turn at low to medium speeds. It is a consistent womp womp womp noise, but you can distinctly hear what sounds like roller bearings or interfering gears. I have replaced all four wheel bearings front and rear and the vehicle in general is quieter but this noise is still there and seems to be slowly getting worse. I am 75% sure the noise is coming from the front driver side. I have read a lot about the CV's and intermediate shafts going bad, so I tore the driver side apart today. Everything came apart like a dream, nothing seized, nothing jammed. I was able to pull the entire CV out by hand with a firm but gentle "pop" motion. Both ends move very freely and the boots are in great condition, no leaks, tears or wear. Is it possible that the splines are making that much noise with everything in such good condition?

I still have to take the passenger side apart to confirm that it is ok, but the boots look identical to the driver side so I am not confident that I'm going to find anything wrong.

Also, I get an occasional pop or clunk when turning hard at low speeds, which also seems to point to bad CV's...but I have no proof that either of them are bad at this point. What should I look at next (after the passenger side CV)? I really hate taking this thing to a shop and paying thousands for repairs that don't need to be done because he mechanic "thought" they knew what the problem was.

The only true way to fully inspect a CV joint is to take it apart and inspect all components; grease fluidity, balls, cage, inner and outer races. Based on your description, it certainly sounds like you have at least one bad or problematic CV joint making the noise... I have seen in the past the grease dry out on joints from age and then the balls wear grooves into the inner and outer races from lack of proper lubrication, the balls can also turn a darker color, and sometimes the ball cage can actually crack or break. :roll:
If grooves get worn into the races, the balls can make a popping noise when the joint is turned to a different angle than normal under load as the balls are forced to pass back and forth across the groves in the races. :(

This may be more information than you desire, but without teardown and inspection, I would suspect the outer CV joint on the drivers side in your case! :wink:


Well, my local NAPA is currently out of the reman CV units and can't find any to have shipped in for me, so I'm going to wait until they can find some. The noise hasn't become scary yet, but it is very annoying. I own two CRD's now, one being rebuilt from totaled condition and my current DD and I am working on both of them simultaneously trying to get them both back into top condition. Talk about torture! I'll use this as an excuse to get back to working on the totaled Jeep...

Thanks for the info, I'll post back if new CV's don't fix the issue.
Author:  Northernturdburglar [ Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
It sounds like metal on metal clanging around at any speed, its constant and occurs when coasting in neutral as well. The noise seems to be originating from the middle to the back of the jeep. If you put it in 4wheel drive its horrendous. I've changed out rear diff fluid and front diff fluid. Thinking maybe T-case has gone bad, or CV axle?
Author:  flash7210 [ Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Northernturdburglar wrote:
It sounds like metal on metal clanging around at any speed, its constant and occurs when coasting in neutral as well. The noise seems to be originating from the middle to the back of the jeep. If you put it in 4wheel drive its horrendous. I've changed out rear diff fluid and front diff fluid. Thinking maybe T-case has gone bad, or CV axle?

Check the front driveshaft.
Drive it with it removed and if the noise has disappeared then you know its one of the joints on the driveshaft
Author:  JAFO [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Found out last week that my rear end noise turned out to be teeth broken off spider gears. Rear end was rebuilt (warranty paid for it) :BANANA:
Author:  flman [ Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
JAFO wrote:
Found out last week that my rear end noise turned out to be teeth broken off spider gears. Rear end was rebuilt (warranty paid for it) :BANANA:


On a 10 year old vehicle, warranty paid for it?
Author:  JAFO [ Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Yup. Bought it with the vehicle last year.
Author:  tedder [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Well I've read all the posts in this drive line noise thread and have not found anything describing rear wheel bearing play. I looked in the SM and it does not describe the play but if noisy replace. When I grab my rear wheel, either side, I have some play, est. 0.125", is this normal or do I have bad rear wheel bearings? I have a noise I've been chasing that is whirring sound between 40 to 55 MPH. My wife's CRD has the same tires but not the whirring sound. I replaced the front wheel hubs not long ago. I just replace the front drive shaft rear CV joint. I'm thinking it is the rear wheel bearing but wanted some input before I partake in that adventure.

Thanks,
Author:  flash7210 [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
tedder wrote:
Well I've read all the posts in this drive line noise thread and have not found anything describing rear wheel bearing play. I looked in the SM and it does not describe the play but if noisy replace. When I grab my rear wheel, either side, I have some play, est. 0.125", is this normal or do I have bad rear wheel bearings? I have a noise I've been chasing that is whirring sound between 40 to 55 MPH. My wife's CRD has the same tires but not the whirring sound. I replaced the front wheel hubs not long ago. I just replace the front drive shaft rear CV joint. I'm thinking it is the rear wheel bearing but wanted some input before I partake in that adventure.

Thanks,

Is that in-out play or up-down-side-to-side?
If in-out, that seems normal.
Anything else could be worn axle bearings.

Also check diff oil levels and pinion yoke for play.

And depending on your tires, uneven wear can cause noise at those speeds. Try rotating the tires to see if that changes anything.
My tires hum at those speeds so it time for me to rotate them.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Quote:
When I grab my rear wheel, either side, I have some play, est. 0.125"

That is normal axle end play, the axles actually "float" a very small amount.
Are you leaking any oil at either wheel? A lot of times when an axle bearing fails, it will wipe the axle bearing seal and it will start leaking oil.

Best bet: Take your vehicle to a shop, place it on a shop lift with all tires off ground and bring it up to speed where you hear the sound and see if it still there.
If noise is gone, noise is most likely the tires!
If noise is still there, a mechanic using a mechanic's stethoscope or listing device should be able to pinpoint the location of the noise in a matter of minutes.

Also like flash suggested, check rear end oil level and the pinion input shaft for any looseness or lateral movement, it should not have any!
:SOMBRERO:
Author:  tedder [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Thanks, I know on other vehicles I've owned the rear wheels had in/out play and they were suppose to just didn't know about this. I start checking the fluid levels and rotate tires.

Again Thanks and I'll update this on my findings.
Author:  ROKTAXI [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
I have both eco tune and trans tunes, purchased 04/2014 and 10/2014. I've developed a vibration (felt in the steering wheel) in the 40 thru 50 mph range, only under throttle pressure not the coast side. I've ruled out any tires /driveline / axle issues. From what I've learned so far is that the TC may be causing it.

I put less than 7K miles / yr. and mostly for light to moderate off road use.

Factory REMAN motor has ~60K, odometer is 120K.

How can I test / know with reasonable certainty that is is in fact the TC? And if so what TC would be my best choice?


Bumping my post from a different section of LOST, as well as from GDE forum.

On Jan. 10, 2017 I took the Jeep to a long-time, reputable TC builder (Accerated Torque Converters) here in Grand Junction CO. He drove the Jeep and was pretty sure it wasn't the TC or the transmission making the vibration / droning noise. He suggested I take it to a driveline specialist which I did and he noted excessive lateral movement in the RF CV axle. Turns out that the replacement of that shaft I did a few months ago was not the correct part as it was for a gasser. They installed a new (correct) one along with a new inner axle shaft. Still no change in the vibration issue. They have no clue at this point of what to do.

NOTE: Yes, each drive shaft was removed to verify that it wasn't coming from being unbalanced.

Is it possible that the turbo would behave this way? I've run out of possibilities. VERY frustrating!! -
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Have you pulled the cover on the front diff to check for ring and pinion or carrier bearing damage?
Author:  ROKTAXI [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Have you pulled the cover on the front diff to check for ring and pinion or carrier bearing damage?

Thanks for your reply.
No, have not done that. I will consider that if I get more input that it MAY be a cause. I also asked that of the driveline shop but they said carrier / pinon bearing noise normally doesn't behave that way, ie: only at a certain speed range (40-50mph). Hopefully more will chime in to confirm either way.
Author:  flash7210 [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
Because you say you feel the shake in the steering wheel, that tells me the issue is in the front axle.
My first guess would be wheel balance.
But it seems you have already checked the most obvious places.
Maybe its the steering rack?
Or maybe in the differential housing?
Author:  ROKTAXI [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
flash7210 wrote:
Because you say you feel the shake in the steering wheel, that tells me the issue is in the front axle.
My first guess would be wheel balance.
But it seems you have already checked the most obvious places.
Maybe its the steering rack?
Or maybe in the differential housing?


Thanks for the reply flash7210 .

The rack was replaced at less than 60K miles by the previous owner. The stealership really took the previous owner for all he's worth. Many other items were also replaced, including the motor (piston exited)!

Makes sense that it could be coming from the rack because of feeling it in the steering wheel. Could the rack cause a vibration that comes in at 40mph and gone at 55mph???

I've also replaced the motor mounts about a year ago. Not to say one couldn't have gone bad and is magnifying the noise??

But the real question is WHY does the vibration (not a shake) with a deep drone noise appear only at the 40-50 mph. Something is out of balance logic tells me. New tires / wheels and also had them rotated about 1K miles after purchase, not to mention it had the same issue with the old tires/wheels.

Going back to the front diff possibility, about 3 years ago I had a Detroit TruTrac installed. They don't have clutches but maybe there some other pieces / parts that could have come loose???? HOWEVER, the vibration goes away when not under a load..... even with the front driveshaft removed. :5SHOTS:
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
WWDiesel wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
I have a strange noise that occurs only when making a hard left turn at low to medium speeds. It is a consistent womp womp womp noise, but you can distinctly hear what sounds like roller bearings or interfering gears. I have replaced all four wheel bearings front and rear and the vehicle in general is quieter but this noise is still there and seems to be slowly getting worse. I am 75% sure the noise is coming from the front driver side. I have read a lot about the CV's and intermediate shafts going bad, so I tore the driver side apart today. Everything came apart like a dream, nothing seized, nothing jammed. I was able to pull the entire CV out by hand with a firm but gentle "pop" motion. Both ends move very freely and the boots are in great condition, no leaks, tears or wear. Is it possible that the splines are making that much noise with everything in such good condition?

I still have to take the passenger side apart to confirm that it is ok, but the boots look identical to the driver side so I am not confident that I'm going to find anything wrong.

Also, I get an occasional pop or clunk when turning hard at low speeds, which also seems to point to bad CV's...but I have no proof that either of them are bad at this point. What should I look at next (after the passenger side CV)? I really hate taking this thing to a shop and paying thousands for repairs that don't need to be done because he mechanic "thought" they knew what the problem was.

The only true way to fully inspect a CV joint is to take it apart and inspect all components; grease fluidity, balls, cage, inner and outer races. Based on your description, it certainly sounds like you have at least one bad or problematic CV joint making the noise... I have seen in the past the grease dry out on joints from age and then the balls wear grooves into the inner and outer races from lack of proper lubrication, the balls can also turn a darker color, and sometimes the ball cage can actually crack or break. :roll:
If grooves get worn into the races, the balls can make a popping noise when the joint is turned to a different angle than normal under load as the balls are forced to pass back and forth across the groves in the races. :(

This may be more information than you desire, but without teardown and inspection, I would suspect the outer CV joint on the drivers side in your case! :wink:


Well, I'm reviving this issue. I'm losing my patience with these vehicles. They used to be fun to drive, but now I can't keep one alive long enough without some kind of constant problem to even justify owning the darn thing anymore. I STILL have a growling/interfering gear noise when turning hard RIGHT (not left as stated before) and am at a loss as to where to go next. It also makes a slight wuhwuhwuh noise when driven straight or SLIGHTLY right on the highway at high speeds. Both noises are in-time with the wheel speed. I have changed all four wheel bearings and seals, both front CV shafts, front brake pads and clips, had new tires installed (needed them anyway) and replaced the upper and lower ball joints on both sides in the front AND rebuilt the front prop shaft since the rear boot was torn. After an alignment the thing still makes the identical noise it has been making the whole time. Luckily (maybe?) it hasn't gotten any worse. I kind of wish it would fail catastrophically so I can figure out what the f#(% is causing it! It is really hard to tell if it is coming from the front or the rear. My only thoughts are pinion bearings or differential gear backlash? Don't pinion bearings typically make noise at any speed and any turn angle? I have no idea about the gear backlash, I just say that because I am out of ideas and the noise kind of sounds like gears rubbing. Am I missing anything obvious? Any way to test a few things that I haven't checked yet without major equipment? I am still holding out on taking it to a specialist because I don't know of any locally that are competent enough to diagnose the current date on a calendar, or who won't charge me $500 just to look at the thing with a raised eyebrow. It might be time to take a chance though, because I'm sure this thing will wait until I'm in the middle of the damned desert to fail and leave me stranded...
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
A few thoughts:
Make sure you are not in 4 wheel drive, cable problem at transfer case.
Pinion bearing problems normally get louder as speed increases.
Could be a bad carrier bearing, or a bad spot on ring gear. Pull front differential cover and inspect ring and pinion gears and carrier bearings for any excess play.
Look closely at oil out of front differential and see if it has any metal flakes in it. A sure sign of bearing or gear problems in differential.

Take it to a good transmission shop, get them to put it on a lift with tires off ground and bring it up to noise speed and see if noise can be pinpointed to location in front or rear of vehicle. A good shop should know how to do this!
Note: Not sure if this can be done on an 06 model, only 05's???

Good luck and keep us posted!
Author:  SargeIndustries [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
mine made noise while turning to the right going down the highway. This is what I found wrong...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84080
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The CRD drive line noise thread
SargeIndustries wrote:
mine made noise while turning to the right going down the highway. This is what I found wrong...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84080

OMG! Man that is UGLY! And you are indeed very lucky that one of them did not make the ring & pinion gear a bolt head processor!!! :shock: :shock:
Hope you went and bought some lottery tickets... :ROTFL:
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