It is currently Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:18 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:34 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rockville, Maryland
HI fellow forum members.

I started planning my project for the installation of an in-tank fuel pump. Because of my limited working space and being expose to the weather, my project will be executed as follows:
A.- Obtain the pump (Order placed already)
B.- Get a fuel tank and the wiring harness from a doner at the boneyard. (located one in FL.)
C.- Modify the harness and clean the tank and install the pump. (hard time getting the correct terminals for the connectors in small quantities)
D.- Remove the harness from my CRD and install the modified harness. (one Week end)
E.- Remove the tank from the CRD and install the tank with the pump in it. (another week end)

Hopeful this could be accomplished during this summer/fall time and weather permitting.

Now my question to you members that have done the installation before. What will be controlling the operation of the in-tank fuel pump?

I have spent several hours looking through the pages of the factory manual and I can't find a clear response to my question. It is clear in the manual how the fuel pump in the gas motor model is connected and controlled, but for what I could gather, the source of power for the pump in the diesel model will be through the fuse and relay that feeds and controls the fuel heater. That means that the in-tank fuel pump will work in sync with the fuel heater, Is this correct, and if so is it desirable? Is the fuse large enough?

Have any body have an answer? Thanks.

_________________
Sergio05CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:33 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3855
Location: Central GA
Sergio del Castillo wrote:
HI fellow forum members.
I started planning my project for the installation of an in-tank fuel pump. Because of my limited working space and being expose to the weather, my project will be executed as follows:
A.- Obtain the pump (Order placed already)
B.- Get a fuel tank and the wiring harness from a doner at the boneyard. (located one in FL.)
C.- Modify the harness and clean the tank and install the pump. (*hard time getting the correct terminals for the connectors in small quantities)
D.- Remove the harness from my CRD and install the modified harness. (one Week end)
E.- Remove the tank from the CRD and install the tank with the pump in it. (another week end)
Hopeful this could be accomplished during this summer/fall time and weather permitting.
Now my question to you members that have done the installation before. What will be controlling the operation of the in-tank fuel pump?
I have spent several hours looking through the pages of the factory manual and I can't find a clear response to my question. It is clear in the manual how the fuel pump in the gas motor model is connected and controlled, but for what I could gather, the source of power for the pump in the diesel model will be through the fuse and relay that feeds and controls the fuel heater. That means that the in-tank fuel pump will work in sync with the fuel heater, Is this correct, and if so is it desirable? Is the fuse large enough?
Have any body have an answer? Thanks.

*You can get the necessary terminals individually and in any quantity you desire from Mouser Electronics:
Wire Terminals: APEX 2.8MM
male, 14-16 gauge wire
female, 14-16 gauge wire
https://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Autom ... bwZ1z1414h

Perform Items "D & E" at the same time! It takes very little time to install the harness once you get the fuel tank dropped. It is basically plug&play if you have the new harness in hand. You can also remove the lower part of the back seat and get the carpet up on the drivers side in advance to allow access the plugin connector in that location.

As to 12v power, the CRD is already completely wired with all the necessary wiring, relay, and logic in the ECM to operate the intank fuel pump. The OEM wiring terminates in the connector under the rear seat as described above, so all you have to add is the wires from this connector to the top of the fuel tank.

The ECM totally controls operation of the fuel pump via the relay and the ignition switch.
When you turn the ign switch to the run position (power on) it will energize the fuel pump relay for ~15 seconds to charge up and pressurize the system, Then when you start the engine, the ECM will energize the relay and the fuel pump will run continuously while the engine is in operation. When you switch the engine OFF, the ECM will de-energize the fuel pump relay at the same instant.

View this intank fuel pump and wiring harness install guide, it covers the install in good detail! > http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/

Not necessary to change the fuse, it is already rated for the fuel pump, fuse no. 24, 20 amps.
Have installed a couple of the intank fuel pumps including my own CRD and have never changed anything other than adding the wiring and fuel tank module.... :wink:

:SOMBRERO:

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Thanks WWDiesel,
What you describe makes sense to me, but I can not follow it in the manual. My manual indicates that fuse 24 should be empty ( I have not checked the Power Box yet), and in place of the fuel pump relay shows a fuel heater relay. In the other hand, I have found a lot of, lets call them "typos", in my books. So I am trusting previous experience by the forum members.

Also thanks for the link for the wire terminals I will get to them today.

So far as doing D & E together, I have to consider the Washington DC area weather. As the say goes, "If you don't like the DC weather, wait 20 minutes". Before removing the tank, I have two extra steps, one, remove the tow bar and trailer plug and, two, remove the metal shield for the tank. That could add one hour to the job. I have had some work dome to the wiring harness, outside the cabin, for the wiring to the ABS plug, and I believe that I could replace the wiring without lowering the tank. Will see.

PS: Thanks also for the link to auerbach, that is where I started my planning. I printed it out to have it handy while I am under the CRD.

_________________
Sergio05CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:30 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Southeast Michigan
Sergio del Castillo wrote:
I have had some work dome to the wiring harness, outside the cabin, for the wiring to the ABS plug, and I believe that I could replace the wiring without lowering the tank. Will see.
The harness connects to the fuel level sending unit on top of the tank, and there's no way you would be able to get your hand in there to disconnect it without dropping the tank (unless you were to cut a hole in the floor, which I would not recommend). Since you'll need to drop the tank in order to change the wiring harness, you'd might as well swap in the pump while the tank is out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:28 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Thanks JOE, that is what I was suspecting. I will have to allocate more time for the work.

Now some additional information to add to my wiring inquires. First view of the Power box (PDC) as per manual for the gas model (Sorry, but i do not know how to insert PDF files, or any kind of files, here)
This image shown a 20A fuse in cavity 24 and a "Fuel Pump Relay" in cavity 29. That is what I have been told that i should have.

The PDC image in the book and on the real life are not identical, there are several variations between them two. Most notable, no fuse in cavity 24, and a relay labeled"FUEL HEATER REALY" in cavity 29, with a 20A fuse in cavity11, and, there is a 10A fuse in cavity 17 labeled "Fuel Priming" with a relay labeled"Fuel Priming" in cavity 38 where the book image show a "Spare". These last ones do not show anywhere in the diagrams in the manual. I do not see any "Fuel Priming Pump" in my CRD.

Have any one have seen these before, or i do have one of a kind machine?

_________________
Sergio05CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:43 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3855
Location: Central GA
As Joe stated, you cannot get to the top of the fuel tank and the connector on top of the fuel tank module without dropping the fuel tank. :roll:
my reason for saying do D & E at the same time.

A couple of suggestions:
1. As I stated earlier, go ahead and remove the lower part of the rear seat and undo the trim that is holding the carpet down so you can lift it up real quick and easy to access the connector under the left rear side seat and to access the rubber grommet where the wiring harness passes through the body going to the fuel tank area. This can be done in advance and put back together at a later date to save on time.
2. Remove the fuel tank metal skid plate in advance and it too can be put back at a later date when more time is available.
3. I did NOT have to drop the factory trailer hitch or it's associated trailer wiring when dropping the tank on my 05. Not sure this is really required, maybe 06's are different? :roll:

Since the CRD did not come from the factory with an installed intank fuel pump, although it should have, there are no current wiring diagrams specifically for it in an FSM available.
All we can do is look at the gasser diagrams to glean information on how our CRD's are wired in this area.... :roll:
I will have to look at mine and try and identify for sure which fuse feeds 12v to the intank pump.
Remember, there are two sides to this relay, the power side that actually feeds the 12v to the pump, and the control side from the ign switch that supplies power to the control side of the fuel pump relay....

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:49 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Thanks WWDiesel.
My is an 05 sports model. When I bought it it came bare bones. I added a some of accessories, among them a shield for the fuel tank. This shield install above the tow bar using the same bolts, so I am now forced to remove the tow bar to remove the shield to gain access to the tank. It is not difficult, only six bolts, but one of them requires to remove the right rear wheel to have space for the tool to spin, otherwise you could turn the tool about three degrees only. PIP. So yes i will plan to do both D & E at the same time.

Now, back to the wiring. I confirmed that i do not have a fuse in cavity 24, and that the place for the fuel pump relay is used by the fuel heater relay, feed from 20A fuse cavity 11, but I do have a 10A fuse, cavity 17, and a "fuel Priming" relay, cavity 38 (?), that my friend advisor and myself agree that it was to be used for the in-tank pump, to function as Priming Pump from the factory, but the "bean counters" decided to omit. What I will do now is to verify the continuity of the wiring from the relay back to the rear connector (C-307) under the rear seat. Will do that tomorrow as it started to rain here now.

_________________
Sergio05CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:36 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Southeast Michigan
Another thing you may want is a 6mm tap and a short 6mm bolt, as well as a crimp-on ring terminal that fits around a 6mm bolt (I found a small pack of ring terminals that fit nicely at an Ace Hardware, they're labeled for #12-1/4" Stud, 16-14 AWG, Ace part number 34543). The supplied connection in the wiring harness is positive only; you'll need to provide a ground (negative) connection as well. Under the carpet near the electrical connector there's a small, square metal piece on the floor sheetmetal with an unthreaded hole in it. Run a 6mm tap into it and then thread in a 6mm bolt; now you've got a ground connection. I suspect this is where the factory pump is grounded on the gas models.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:00 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3855
Location: Central GA
joe_ wrote:
Another thing you may want is a 6mm tap and a short 6mm bolt, as well as a crimp-on ring terminal that fits around a 6mm bolt (I found a small pack of ring terminals that fit nicely at an Ace Hardware, they're labeled for #12-1/4" Stud, 16-14 AWG, Ace part number 34543). The supplied connection in the wiring harness is positive only; you'll need to provide a ground (negative) connection as well. Under the carpet near the electrical connector there's a small, square metal piece on the floor sheetmetal with an unthreaded hole in it. Run a 6mm tap into it and then thread in a 6mm bolt; now you've got a ground connection. I suspect this is where the factory pump is grounded on the gas models.

Just be sure and grind, file, or scrap the paint off that body ground location so you have a very good connection.... :roll:

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IN-TANK FUEL PUMP CONTROLS
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:04 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Thanks JOE, WWDiesel,
I already have collected those parts and have the tools on hand. Also the terminals for the connectors are in the mail. Some setback, the supplier for the pump send me the wrong device. I returned it for a credit and going to place an order with another supplier.

_________________
Sergio05CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: APC9199, Google [Bot], LikesDieselTanks and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com