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| smoke and rattling http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73696 |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | smoke and rattling |
so i bought a new project to hopefully replace my 3.7 kj. im not a mechanic for a living, but i do all kinds of wrenching. never touched a diesel. its smoking blue/white pretty heavy, smoke smells like fuel not antifreeze or oil, and it knocks. as soon as you hit the gas the knock gets louder, doesnt seem rpm related. it starts making more noise before the rpm really get to pick up. im thinking rockers. my buddy is thinking an injector dumping all the fuel. so im looking for some ideas where to start. ive read the noobie guide. ive been doing a lot of searching. |
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| Author: | bigjl [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
With the complexity of the bottom end I would use a automotive stethoscope to confirm that it isn't the bottom end knocking. That is the most common cause of knocking in the UK. |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
it also has code p0303. im not sure if its a rod banging away or what. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
jamesdart wrote: so i bought a new project to hopefully replace my 3.7 kj. im not a mechanic for a living, but i do all kinds of wrenching. never touched a diesel. its smoking blue/white pretty heavy, smoke smells like fuel not antifreeze or oil, and it knocks. as soon as you hit the gas the knock gets louder, doesnt seem rpm related. it starts making more noise before the rpm really get to pick up. im thinking rockers. my buddy is thinking an injector dumping all the fuel. so im looking for some ideas where to start. ive read the noobie guide. ive been doing a lot of searching. First..Congrads on your first Diesel & its a Jeep CRD. I hope it's not your only form of transportation? Sounds like you have several problems. There are lots of people to help you here. What city do you live in? Someone may be close. Current miles? ANY mods? GDE tune? 1. Blue and white smoke= oil burning. Valve seals, Rings, Head gasket, Cracked head. 2. Noise is a big problem. Could be a rod bearing. You did check the oil? Only add the correct type. Noise is prob not rockers or timing. But to be sure: Pull off the intake hose on the drivers side where it attaches to the intake. Start and see if there is any after firing back thru the intake. If your not sure hold a small piece of paper by the intake. If its normal it should be sucking in only. Good luck! |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
ok that test is what i was looking for. it sounds very similar to the videos by sirsam with bad rockers. the smoke smells like diesel. doesnt smell like burning oil, or antifreeze. all fluids are full and look normal too me. antifreze is clear, oil black. not my only mode. right now its my 8th vehicle. i wont ever buy a new vehicle again so i like to have a back up. plus i have a few toys. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
If your lucky it jumped time and that is the noise and smoke. But norm the smoke is black and yes smells like fuel. Whats the miles? do you have any info on history? Any questions after you check let me know. Good luck? |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
wouldnt that paper test on the intake only work if the exhuast rocker is bad? i was thinking intake rocker, not allowing enough air, but still getting fuel. but im new to this. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
jamesdart wrote: wouldnt that paper test on the intake only work if the exhuast rocker is bad? i was thinking intake rocker, not allowing enough air, but still getting fuel. but im new to this. NO, intake also, but its norm the exhaust that goes first. Do the test for sure. |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
i did go outside and try the piece of paper test, it seemed to only be sucking. this is going to get confusing. i have some reciepts but not a lot of real solid proof. timing belt was done at 160,000 miles, about 6 months later engine was replaced with a used engine with 32,000 miles. it currently has 180,000 on it. going by that, the engine is an 05 with 52,000 miles, on the original timing belt. |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
kjjet wrote: Blue and white smoke= oil burning. Valve seals, Rings, Head gasket, Cracked head. White smoke could also be unburnt diesel fuel due to low compression, etc. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
MRausch82 wrote: kjjet wrote: Blue and white smoke= oil burning. Valve seals, Rings, Head gasket, Cracked head. White smoke could also be unburnt diesel fuel due to low compression, etc. Could be mike, but mine was all black. Like rolling coal!! Well, if the intake test is good. I would remove the hose going to the turbo and check the turbo for looseness. There should be little movement FNT to rear. None right to left. Also look around for oil leaks. |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
there was some wet oil in the intake, but from what ive read thats normal for a stocker? |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
Correct. You will have this unless you have a provent or hose mod. Sounding like you have a cylinder bad or rings. Burning oil and unburnt fuel. |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
kjjet wrote: Correct. You will have this unless you have a provent or hose mod. Sounding like you have a cylinder bad or rings. Burning oil and unburnt fuel. +1. How much blowby do you have? How does it start when cold or hot? |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
i pulled the oil cap while running, you can definitely feel some blowby but im not sure what is normal for one of these. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
A good bit of air dose come from the oil cap when removed. Last year I asked around for a compression tester. With no luck. As far as i know the only way to check compression would be to remove the injector and use a compression tester in its place. I asked the injector shop if they had a old injector that was gutted out to use as a tester. They said they would have to scrap one. Some people said to removed the glow plugs and use their hole. Be sure to remove all the injector plugs so your not filling the cyl with fuel. I would do a compression test, But sorry i dont have a easy way to tell you. |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
jamesdart wrote: i pulled the oil cap while running, you can definitely feel some blowby but im not sure what is normal for one of these. How much smoke comes from the oil filler while it is running? Do you have the EHM? |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
Another thing to think about when doing a compression test. You have been runing a engine that is clearly not firing correctly and it is building up soot in one or more cylinders. That build up will be all over the valves and could give you a false low compression test. The best way I know to assure you get a true compression test is to remove the injectors and fill a cylinder one at a time with Diesel fuel at TOP DEAD CENTER. Then turn the engine over a few times. If you had the intake off you could Steak the valves. (this is done by placing wood on each valve and pressing down a few times, therefore letting the fuel work around the valves) After all the cylinders are cleaned out, perform a compression test on each cylinder. Be sure to change the oil proir to starting. |
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| Author: | jamesdart [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
ok, i guess it had a broken rod. had it running, went to move some cars around. went to move it, and it locked up there was a handful of pieces of block laying on the ground. |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: smoke and rattling |
Ouch! |
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