21/30MPG is for 4x2 with 18" tires only...
Up-charge will be another story yet to be announced...
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| Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73709 |
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| Author: | Big Montana [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
New Jeeps come with Diesels! 30MPG! http://www.freep.com/article/20130114/B ... d-Cherokee Maybe I'll trade in my Liberty for a second try at a better product. Any guesses as to the price? 'm thinking $45k. |
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
21/30MPG is for 4x2 with 18" tires only... Up-charge will be another story yet to be announced... |
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| Author: | Billy M [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
I read an article about the new diesel Grand Cherokee saying the engine was modified to meet US emissions requirements. The article didn't go into detail, but I would expect some emissions-related issues like we have with our 2.8's. So...I'm not sure if this product will be better or not? I guess time will tell. Billy |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
Hope you like buying DEF, it's required in all diesel vehicles post 2012. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
Is it in a Chrysler product? It will suck, the question is how badly and how expensively to fix. The CRD should be the guide here: It sucked a LOT when the hidden (not very deeply) design flaws surfaced, and VERY VERY expensive - especially since the dealers will STILL not have any techs that actually know what they are doing. Oh yea, and add in the even-more-complex emissions gear. DPF, DEF, still too much EGR (because they LOVE that crap)... Why should a diesel have a performance or mileage benefit over gasoline? That isn't what the oil barons want, then we might buy less of their crap! I'll go sit in the corner with my foil hat on now. |
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| Author: | spitfire36o [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
geordi wrote: Is it in a Chrysler product? It will suck, the question is how badly and how expensively to fix. The CRD should be the guide here: It sucked a LOT when the hidden (not very deeply) design flaws surfaced, and VERY VERY expensive - especially since the dealers will STILL not have any techs that actually know what they are doing. Oh yea, and add in the even-more-complex emissions gear. DPF, DEF, still too much EGR (because they LOVE that crap)... Why should a diesel have a performance or mileage benefit over gasoline? That isn't what the oil barons want, then we might buy less of their crap! I'll go sit in the corner with my foil hat on now. The Cherokee will get released and most of the issues will be discovered shortly after. You would only expect that 50% of the issues that we saw with the Liberty CRD and GC crd will not come about on this model. After a year or 2 Kieth at green diesel will have it tuned, the members of this forum will have the remaining bugs figured out, Chrysler will drop it into a Wrangler Unlimited, and my dreams will finally come true when I trade in my KJ CRD for a 2015-16 Diesel JK on 35's. |
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| Author: | truckbouy2 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
Probably be quite a marvel. Lets see, German Chrysler, Itallian+German parts now Itallian Chrysler, Itallian parts. But the same 'ol dumb-ass dealer organization that won't have a clue how to repair them. Funny thing, if it wasn't for sites like this and the creative folks that man them the 'ol Liberty CRD would be populating the salvage yards with about the same value as a Renault diesel. Good thing though, it will open up the availiabilty for doners for that diesel transplant some are longing for. |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
Despite members pessimistic attitudes, I am open for this. Granted I won't be first in line, but unless a 1/2 ton diesel comes to market, this is what I hope to get. I just hope Keith can tune it. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
ChooChooman74 wrote: Despite members pessimistic attitudes, I am open for this. Granted I won't be first in line, but unless a 1/2 ton diesel comes to market, this is what I hope to get. I just hope Keith can tune it. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2 Without the 5+ years experience of the members of this forum, I would not want to try to re-engineer yet another attempt to meet the ever-more-stringent politically motivated requirements of an insane religious cult masquerading as a government bureaucracy. The defects of the CRD Liberty are pretty well defined at this point and most of them have effective work-arounds. In 6 or 7 years, I might consider buying a used Cherokee, but not till then. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
spitfire36o wrote: The Cherokee will get released and most of the issues will be discovered shortly after. You would only expect that 50% of the issues that we saw with the Liberty CRD and GC crd will not come about on this model. After a year or 2 Kieth at green diesel will have it tuned, the members of this forum will have the remaining bugs figured out, Chrysler will drop it into a Wrangler Unlimited, and my dreams will finally come true when I trade in my KJ CRD for a 2015-16 Diesel JK on 35's. Can I have some of whatever you are smoking there? That is a GOOD batch you got, to work up a vision like that! The chances of Chrysler putting that engine into a Wrangler Unlimited are somewhere south of the chances that Congress will grow a conscience anytime soon. Why do I say that? Because it is what people WANT. Car enthusiasts have been asking for a 1/2 ton diesel pickup for YEARS. Hasn't happened, for a long list of excuses, all of which are bullshiit. 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks are CHEAP to make (the same basic cost as a 1/2 ton) but the price point (profit margin) is MUCH higher. Putting a diesel into one of those, and marking up the actual $1000-$2000 add-on up to about $6000-$8000 extra... Means more profit for them! Yet more marking up when they insist that the diesel option can only be had at the top trim levels, where you MUST buy the $3500 floor-mat-and-undercoating package... And you start to see why we don't have more diesels in this country. The car manufacturers don't give a rip about diesels, other than they know that certain people WANT them, so they are willing to pay $$$$$$$$$ for them. Limiting the supply and maximizing the profit by restricting to the top trims and price points, means that they get megabucks for each one. A 1/2 ton truck or a Wrangler Unlimited is a basic vehicle - functional and affordable, and the margin above the actual cost to build it isn't huge. They can't justify their usual $8000 upcharge, because it would be fully 1/3 of their existing asking price, which is already about 3 times the cost-to-build. Heaven knows, they won't EVER think to reduce their own profit margins on a single sale, when it might translate into increased volume because they would be selling something someone WANTS... I'll make a standing bet right now: This new Grand Cherokee will ONLY have a diesel at the top trim level, and the price will be prohibitive such that no buyer will ever want to take their investment over anything rougher than a speed bump. I'm predicting the cost will be above $48,000. The result? Another niche vehicle, and they can pat each other on the back and proclaim how they "knew" that the American Public really DIDN'T want a diesel vehicle in anything other than a $50,000 truck (that costs them 10k to build) and the cycle will continue. Anybody want to bet against me? |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
Well - I wouldn't want to bet on it - and I won't believe it until I see one in the Dealership but I think Fiat/Chrysler has a much higher probability of making it happen than Daimler/Chrysler (I've seen a couple of stories about the Fiat CEO - he seems interesting) http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/14/us-autoshow-fiat-alfa-idUSBRE90D16J20130114 |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
spitfire36o wrote: geordi wrote: Is it in a Chrysler product? It will suck, the question is how badly and how expensively to fix. The CRD should be the guide here: It sucked a LOT when the hidden (not very deeply) design flaws surfaced, and VERY VERY expensive - especially since the dealers will STILL not have any techs that actually know what they are doing. Oh yea, and add in the even-more-complex emissions gear. DPF, DEF, still too much EGR (because they LOVE that crap)... Why should a diesel have a performance or mileage benefit over gasoline? That isn't what the oil barons want, then we might buy less of their crap! I'll go sit in the corner with my foil hat on now. The Cherokee will get released and most of the issues will be discovered shortly after. You would only expect that 50% of the issues that we saw with the Liberty CRD and GC crd will not come about on this model. After a year or 2 Kieth at green diesel will have it tuned, the members of this forum will have the remaining bugs figured out, Chrysler will drop it into a Wrangler Unlimited, and my dreams will finally come true when I trade in my KJ CRD for a 2015-16 Diesel JK on 35's. Will it have "TTY" head bolts? Will it have EGR? pee injection? Weak TC? VE'd valve body parts? low zinc lube oil? Unrebuildable turbo? Total lack of dealer support? Gee, sooo much to look forward to! |
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| Author: | woodtick [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
geordi wrote: spitfire36o wrote: I'll make a standing bet right now: This new Grand Cherokee will ONLY have a diesel at the top trim level, and the price will be prohibitive such that no buyer will ever want to take their investment over anything rougher than a speed bump. I'm predicting the cost will be above $48,000. The result? Another niche vehicle, and they can pat each other on the back and proclaim how they "knew" that the American Public really DIDN'T want a diesel vehicle in anything other than a $50,000 truck (that costs them 10k to build) and the cycle will continue. Anybody want to bet against me? Glass is half empty I see. But I'm not taken that bet. My magic 8 ball seems to agree with you too. |
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| Author: | Drewd [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
You are better off finding a low mileage GC CRD with the 3.0L Mercedes engine. I wouldn't trust VM to make a lawnmower engine. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
From what I've heard about the Merc diesel in the existing GC line... I'd be cautious about those too. Apparently Merc is rather irritated at Mopar for a complete lack of knowledgeable techs (Gee, there's a stunner) and that Mopar also has very nicely eliminated the parts availability from the dealers for that engine. I've heard lead times measured in months, which might as well be 'not available' when your primary vehicle (that cost you $50,000 plus) isn't available to use. The owners have gone to Mercedes dealers looking for parts (Sadly, with only the Mopar part numbers) and Merc hasn't been able to supply them... So the people get grumpy and complain to Merc corporate about it... Who can only point them back at Mopar. The military has a rather accurate (if impolite) term for this situation: Charlie-Fox... Also known as a Cluster-F###. Is my glass half empty about US small diesels? Possibly... But only because the only thing filling that glass are the manufacturers pissing in it. I've been reading reports of the "coming in just 2 model years from now" 1/2 ton or 1/4 ton (Ford Ranger size) trucks with small diesel engines for about 24 years now... Just about since I started driving and became a gearhead. The manufacturers keep spoon feeding these rumors out to us, to keep the hype and our attention growing. Their goal? When they don't deliver as promised (and we eventually need a new vehicle anyway) their hope is to be able to talk us up on one of their OTHER (more profitable) options that we didn't want... But at least we are buying from THEM, and yet again, they get to build whatever dogcrap suits THEM and get us to buy it anyway. Yea, it is pessimistic. But it is also accurate, based on 24 years of my own observations of the market, and 50 years of my father's observations of the same behaviors from when HE was a kid and a gearhead. GM's motto: We build crud, you'll buy it anyway. GM refused to offer even a THREE speed transmission for years, under the mindset that it didn't offer anything to GM... Other than reduced profits. This is where the corporate mind comes from, and you expect them to build what the customer actually wants? LOL!!!!!!! |
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| Author: | truckbouy2 [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
"I'll make a standing bet right now: This new Grand Cherokee will ONLY have a diesel at the top trim level, and the price will be prohibitive such that no buyer will ever want to take their investment over anything rougher than a speed bump. I'm predicting the cost will be above $48,000. The result? Another niche vehicle, and they can pat each other on the back and proclaim how they "knew" that the American Public really DIDN'T want a diesel vehicle in anything other than a $50,000 truck (that costs them 10k to build) and the cycle will continue." I've owned Chrysler Krap for 45 years and Geordi.... You nailed it. In every doggone one of your posts. |
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| Author: | B99 [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
spitfire36o wrote: geordi wrote: Is it in a Chrysler product? It will suck, the question is how badly and how expensively to fix. The CRD should be the guide here: It sucked a LOT when the hidden (not very deeply) design flaws surfaced, and VERY VERY expensive - especially since the dealers will STILL not have any techs that actually know what they are doing. Oh yea, and add in the even-more-complex emissions gear. DPF, DEF, still too much EGR (because they LOVE that crap)... Why should a diesel have a performance or mileage benefit over gasoline? That isn't what the oil barons want, then we might buy less of their crap! I'll go sit in the corner with my foil hat on now. The Cherokee will get released and most of the issues will be discovered shortly after. You would only expect that 50% of the issues that we saw with the Liberty CRD and GC crd will not come about on this model. After a year or 2 Kieth at green diesel will have it tuned, the members of this forum will have the remaining bugs figured out, Chrysler will drop it into a Wrangler Unlimited, and my dreams will finally come true when I trade in my KJ CRD for a 2015-16 Diesel JK on 35's. Amen to that! |
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
At least wait 6 months before getting one, or even wait for model year 15. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
MrMopar64 wrote: At least wait 6 months before getting one, or even wait for model year 15. Why? Once both of my CRDs have been rebuilt with correct TC, ARP studs and other engine corrective work, they'll run for another 400,000 miles. Each. Why would I ever need anything else? And why would I pay new prices for an underengineered yuppiemobile? If I did buy one, I'd wait for a few years for people to figure out the weak spots, and buy one from somebody who was facing his TB change with his wallet empty and his knees knocking. |
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| Author: | boilermaker2 [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Detroit Freep doesn't even know the Liberty CRD existed. |
I did not want to agree with Geordi. Sadly, this was in Big Montana's DFF article above: "The diesel engine will be an option on the Limited, Overland and Summit versions of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. The price has not been announced." Sadly, it seems that history is repeating itself. B2 |
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