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Towing a Boat with your CRD?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73967		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  kjjet [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Towing a Boat with your CRD?
I was looking to buy a boat and wanted to get experience as to a safe amount of weight the CRD should be pulling?
Per the book the CRD has a 5000 lb limit. But that's a lot of weight? I was thinking of pulling 3500 to 4000 lb boat and trailer? With surge brakes?

Is that to much?
Will it be hard to stop?
Living in western PA there are lots of hills and I will be towing it over a hour most of the time.

Anyone with experience pulling with the CRD add your comments please.

Thank you!
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
Comments:
1. IIRC the European tow weight rating for the 05/06 KJ CRD automatic is 7,500 lbs, probably due to fewer lawyers so 5,000 lbs is not an issue.
2. the 2 weak links in the drive train for towing are engine cooling and the torque convertor. IMHO the Hayden severe duty mechanical fan clutch is mandatory (much stronger than stock especially on the 05 and engages the fan at the very beginning of heat rise instead of 30F or so into heat rise) and the 11 blade gasser nylon fan may be desirable. The OEM TC is weakish and will last until it dies whenever that is. It will last longer if you are gentle, service tranny regularly with ATF+4 and it would be a good idea to consider installing an auxillary tranny cooler (several posts on the topic) on the left just behind the grill.
3. I've towed ca. 2,000 lbs of boat and a combo of about 2,000 lbs of 5X8 loaded Uhaul behind a fully loaded KJ CRD with no overheating or brake problems although on the heavy load it was all I-10, the flatest Interstate in the country, and we kept rpms in the vicinity of 1800 (62mph in 5th lockup). No problem holding that gear if you adjust the go pedal to "anticipate" hills a bit (if you let cruise do it the system would downshift on significant upgrades).
4. at the weight you are looking at I think you need trailer brakes of some kind but cannot offer much advice on surge vs. electric. I do know there are a number of posts on how to hookup electrics.
Author:  kjjet [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
Electric brakes are not used on any of the boat's i am looking at. Most people say its due the the fact the trailer is under water when loading and unloading.

Pulling up hills and stopping is my bigest concern.

Anyone pull somthing that heavy?
Author:  striperman36 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
I tow about 3500 lbs of boat and stuff. No problems with the eco-tune and the suncoast/RAM TCM, or the f37 tcm
Author:  kjjet [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
striperman36 wrote:
I tow about 3500 lbs of boat and stuff. No problems with the eco-tune and the suncoast/RAM TCM, or the f37 tcm


Do you have trailer brakes? what kind?

Any big hills?

I have the ECO tune and the jeep runs great, i just never pulled anything more than 700lbs.

Thanks
Author:  joelukex4 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
I towed about 3200LB boat this summer about 150 miles each way to get it repaired. No brakes. Surge brakes would really help as I needed to be really cautious which is not my way. It was 95 degrees out with small hills in Wisconsin. No issues with power or overheating although I didn't run the AC much.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
My personal opinion, I would convert the surge brakes to electric over hydraulic. I feel when you have actual control of the trailer's brakes is a lot safer to tow.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Author:  dirtmover [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
Check your manual for towing limit without brakes.

Check your state legislation.

Consider how your insurance will treat a claim if you exceed either of the above and don't have brakes.

If your trailer comes with brakes they will likely be surge though some manufacturers are now installing electric on boat trailers.

Nice as electric over hydraulic is, it'll cost you about $1000 to retrofit. If you're towing a lot then maybe worth while.

I tow 2500lb now and again without brakes. The Jeep handles the weight no problem but I wouldn't go any heavier without braking assistance. Attempting to tow 3500-4000lb without brakes is a recipe for disaster
Author:  naturist [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
If you look around this forum, you will find many people asking this very question, and many of us answering "no problem, but engine cooling fan and Torque Converter are the weak spots."

I have towed a full size (ie, 8' x 8' front wall) travel trailer that weighs almost 5,000 pounds over the Rockies and back. Twice. Your 3500 lb boat will be a piece of cake. You will have no trouble going up hills, as long as you watch out for overheating -- and that fan clutch gets replaced before you try it.

I think you will also find that a 3500 lb trailer is required by law to have brakes. Some states require it at 3,000 lbs, some 3500 lbs, either way, you are not likely gonna have the option of doing without. My TT acts enough like a parachute that I have never had any trouble going downhill. I've towed downhill through West Virginia on a road I've travelled often, and never needed to touch the brakes when towing, but had to use them several times while not towing. You will not likely have THAT advantage.

My TT suffers most due to wind resistance, which, again, you will not have. Even so, I crested 11,000 feet on I-70 west of Denver over 55 mph, better than the semis in my company. Also better than many gasser cars, which showed obvious signs of power loss due to the thinner air. Since there are no peaks that high in Pennsylvania, you should be fine.
Author:  woodtick [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
I tow a lot with my CRD. I have a Lund Fisherman that measures 18'-6" with a 150hp Merc on the back. :SOMBRERO: Total package with gear and a full 40 gal fuel tank wieghs about 3500- 3700#. Add camping gear for the wife, kids, and I 4200# tops. Power on CRD is fine. Surge breaks on trailer makes stopping a breeze. In fact it's a must. That said, the only time I ever have any concern is in blustery crosswinds. If I were real concerned, I'd add a sway control to the trailer.

Weight isn't what will work against you the most... wind resistance is. Get a fitted cover on that boat. It will = better mpg and less work on your drive-train + keeps stuff clean. :D

When I tow things I always drive more on the conservative side, and it has served me well.

The Jeep is a short wheel based vehicle and if driving to aggressively, you WILL get yourself into a dangerous situation. :dead:

As for electric or hydraulic it is a great system for control, but the drawback is the tow vehicle must have a controller. My boat gets towed with the Jeep, the Missus van, Pa's Dodge Ram, Pa-in-laws Sequoia, etc. If I had electric brakes I would be limited on choice of tow vehicle. :?
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
dirtmover wrote:
Nice as electric over hydraulic is, it'll cost you about $1000 to retrofit. If you're towing a lot then maybe worth while.

I believe, the only thing needed to convert a surge to EoH would be an Actuator.

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/ ... 22500.html

Converting Electric to EoH would be at least $1000 or more.
Author:  striperman36 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
kjjet wrote:
striperman36 wrote:
I tow about 3500 lbs of boat and stuff. No problems with the eco-tune and the suncoast/RAM TCM, or the f37 tcm


Do you have trailer brakes? what kind?

Any big hills?

I have the ECO tune and the jeep runs great, i just never pulled anything more than 700lbs.

Thanks


No brakes, no real hills, I live around Cape Cod and most 50 mi 1 way to ramps. I've towed the boat to South Jersey, 360 mi. one way and up to Lakes in Maine.
Author:  woodtick [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
One other thing, do NOT use an extended ball-mount in the receiver. That will lead to instability.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
woodtick wrote:
One other thing, do NOT use an extended ball-mount in the receiver. That will lead to instability.

I double that. My friend had a gasser and a boat and bottomed out all the time. Try Giordis inverted tire mount. Take off the spare tire carrier, turn it 180 degrees, and remount. Sucks the bottom in and raises it up. You may need stainless washers as a spacer for oversized tires or if you use a tire cover.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Author:  woodtick [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
ChooChooman74 wrote:
woodtick wrote:
One other thing, do NOT use an extended ball-mount in the receiver. That will lead to instability.

I double that. My friend had a gasser and a boat and bottomed out all the time. Try Giordis inverted tire mount. Take off the spare tire carrier, turn it 180 degrees, and remount. Sucks the bottom in and raises it up. You may need stainless washers as a spacer for oversized tires or if you use a tire cover.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


My reason is more stability related. Increasing the distance from center line of the axle to the ball always reduces stability, add that to a short wheelbase and it's a recipe for disaster. :dead:
Author:  crd260 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
I've towed a LOT with my CRD...
here are some thoughts:

trailer brakes:

3500 lbs in town safely with no brakes (leave yourself a good safe following distance, and avoid going down huge hills)
2000 lbs at highway speeds safely with no brakes (I wouldn't want to tow any more than this without brakes: at 60+ MPH.... she just won't stop well enough)

anything above that, and your going to want brakes....

surge breaks and electric brakes both work well. I prefer electric because you can test them. Surge brakes can be dangerous because they may not be working, and you wouldn't know until it was "too late"

some surge systems give you a nice "lag drag" where half a second after you hit the vehicles brakes, you can "feel" the trailer brakes kick in.... other surge brake systems there's no real feedback whatsoever.. only way to know for certain if they're working is to do an abrupt stop and see if you skid or not....

oh yeah. and when you go to buy brake rotors, never ever get the cheap ones..... they WILL warp right away if you tow ANYTHING (with or without trailer brakes)


pulling power:

she pulls 2000-3500 like a champ......
pulling 5000+ up steep mountain passes makes you realize the limits of her horsepower.... you drop way bellow the posted speed limit. Tunes help big time here, but then you run into the limits of your cooling system. In this case, it's best to find a good speed/gear that works well....
something like 3rd gear @ 2700 rpms @ 3/4 throttle, while watching the cooling gauge..... no point in pinning it or revving her up much higher, because you will just over-heat, not worth the extra few MPH you would get from going full throttle.
Author:  dirtmover [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
ChooChooman74 wrote:
Converting Electric to EoH would be at least $1000 or more.


$1000 more than what? You can get a complete kit for a tandem for $1100

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/ ... 43800.html
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
dirtmover wrote:
ChooChooman74 wrote:
Converting Electric to EoH would be at least $1000 or more.


$1000 more than what? You can get a complete kit for a tandem for $1100

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/ ... 43800.html

I said it would be $1000 or more... And you proved it there at $1100..... But if you have surge brakes already, almost everything is there and ready.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Author:  kjjet [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
Thanks To all! Most have surge brakes, None have electric due to backing into the water. I will have brakes and it is required by law. (did some checking) and yes insurance would be a issue.

Nice to here power will not be a issue. I just dont want to push it.

Thanks again!
Author:  dkenny [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Towing a Boat with your CRD?
you are aware of the dangers of surge brakes..
if not..learn more about them I'm going to mention...

while I don't tow with a Jeep..I log 10s of thousands every year towing..
6500 lbs boat with surge brakes..try black mountain...steep and twisty...
4k work trailer..daily..electric brakes.

the down side to surge..is that they must sense a slow from the tow vehical before they activate..
so what the big deal..if you're stopping in the straight line..none..as long as they work..and if you check out the system first..TAKE APART the DRUMS AND LOOK AT THE BRAKES...yes i'm yelling..cannot tell you the number of times I found my boat trailer brakes not working...

I off track here...but what if your going around a corner and have to stop???
the Jeep slows..but the trailer doesn't start to slow until the brakes kick on..AFTER they sense a slow...
if the boat has enough momentium..it'll push the jeep's back end around..NOT GOOD..

with electric..you can just touch the brakes enough to turn on the trailer brakes with slowing the Jeep.

in case you're wondering I'm thinking about eletric over hydralic on our boat trailer..we use in salt water..are going to use yours in PA in salt water? if not..electric is an option...so they get wet..never been in a rain storm?they get wet..might work so good..but no brakes work their best while wet.

-dkenny
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