LOST JEEPS :: View topic - why is this part leaking oil?

So I went ahead and got the permatex and oil change stuff to take care of any oil issues.

Changed the oil (stripped the nut, tracked down another plug).

When I got to remove the intake pin, I noticed it was wobbly even before I took it out. While scraping the previous sealant off, the top half of the opening came off, threads and all. After a few minutes of disbelief and cursing about having broke the engine and needing to replace a $1200 part over a stupid little hole, I got some JB weld, and noticed that I did not broke it myself, but the dealership that did a cylinder head job must have broke it, not told me, and epoxied the thing together (and hence the leak).

I never saw that part leak before, and my previous mechanic was very thorough and would have told me of that (or the dealership told me that was bad). I think it was the dealership since they also introduced another leak at the turbo return line. That got fixed at the time. Unfortunately, this was over a year ago, and there is no more warranty.

I got the cover currently curing the jbweld, and Im wondering if it will hold up until the next timing belt change 75k miles down the line. or if even it's a good idea.

To top it off, the oil pan is covered in oil (which kinda explain the "oil consumption" with no visible drips on the floor--little drips, ~1 qt over 3000 miles--above the skid). This got me worried, but I have no idea what to look for in here. I don't even want to take it to a mechanic, but I have no experience in tearing down engines.

Im hoping the pan just need to be tightened, or at worse a new gasket. What else would leak around that area?

Oh boy... This brings back unhappy memories from this summer when I paid through the roof to have a dealership replace my timing belt. They stripped that very hole and my engine was leaking oil too. I had to take it back for them to reseal it. The real issue is how to lock in the cam pin during my next oil change. They insist that they can do it without the threads, but I don't see how.

Big Montana wrote:

Why would you want to lock the cams during an oil change?

I know what you meant, but that's what you said. Heh.

Going to try and revive this old thread. Anyone have a better plan to fix stripped threads in the cover than a helicoil? Such a few number of threads, lame design. A dealer stripped it on the latest CRD I got :furious:

I know, you're all surprised!

hmm, maybe I should just make a jig to apply pressure on the locking pin for timing? The pin goes just a hair shy of all of the way in, and then slips past the threads. I imagine if you made something to apply a good amount of force inwards, that the stripped thread could be mostly a non-issue. It didn't leak oil because they sealed it...

Author:	alphabet [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:	why is this part leaking oil?
not much, but there is no other part its coming from, so i am assuming its from there. what is that part called, and why would it leak? Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Author:	mark2m [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
That's the access plug for the cam pin on the intake side when do a timing belt change. You can remove it add a little Permatex thread sealant and re-insert. Mark

Author:	alphabet [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
thanks... simple enough.

Author:	alphabet [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
So I went ahead and got the permatex and oil change stuff to take care of any oil issues. Changed the oil (stripped the nut, tracked down another plug). When I got to remove the intake pin, I noticed it was wobbly even before I took it out. While scraping the previous sealant off, the top half of the opening came off, threads and all. After a few minutes of disbelief and cursing about having broke the engine and needing to replace a $1200 part over a stupid little hole, I got some JB weld, and noticed that I did not broke it myself, but the dealership that did a cylinder head job must have broke it, not told me, and epoxied the thing together (and hence the leak). I never saw that part leak before, and my previous mechanic was very thorough and would have told me of that (or the dealership told me that was bad). I think it was the dealership since they also introduced another leak at the turbo return line. That got fixed at the time. Unfortunately, this was over a year ago, and there is no more warranty. I got the cover currently curing the jbweld, and Im wondering if it will hold up until the next timing belt change 75k miles down the line. or if even it's a good idea. To top it off, the oil pan is covered in oil (which kinda explain the "oil consumption" with no visible drips on the floor--little drips, ~1 qt over 3000 miles--above the skid). This got me worried, but I have no idea what to look for in here. I don't even want to take it to a mechanic, but I have no experience in tearing down engines. Im hoping the pan just need to be tightened, or at worse a new gasket. What else would leak around that area?

Author:	kjjet [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
As for the oil pan plug.... The pan strips out easy. Be sure to get a correct replacement. As for the intake.... you will need that plug at the next TB change.

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Author:	ChooChooman74 [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Dont feel bad. I cursed because I thought I broke a tranny pan bolt... Until I saw permatex on the broken part... Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Author:	4x4kingx889 [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Some body probably did a TB change and did not lock the cams and striped that hole

Author:	Big Montana [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
alphabet wrote: So I went ahead and got the permatex and oil change stuff to take care of any oil issues. Changed the oil (stripped the nut, tracked down another plug). When I got to remove the intake pin, I noticed it was wobbly even before I took it out. While scraping the previous sealant off, the top half of the opening came off, threads and all. After a few minutes of disbelief and cursing about having broke the engine and needing to replace a $1200 part over a stupid little hole, I got some JB weld, and noticed that I did not broke it myself, but the dealership that did a cylinder head job must have broke it, not told me, and epoxied the thing together (and hence the leak). I never saw that part leak before, and my previous mechanic was very thorough and would have told me of that (or the dealership told me that was bad). I think it was the dealership since they also introduced another leak at the turbo return line. That got fixed at the time. Unfortunately, this was over a year ago, and there is no more warranty. I got the cover currently curing the jbweld, and Im wondering if it will hold up until the next timing belt change 75k miles down the line. or if even it's a good idea. To top it off, the oil pan is covered in oil (which kinda explain the "oil consumption" with no visible drips on the floor--little drips, ~1 qt over 3000 miles--above the skid). This got me worried, but I have no idea what to look for in here. I don't even want to take it to a mechanic, but I have no experience in tearing down engines. Im hoping the pan just need to be tightened, or at worse a new gasket. What else would leak around that area? Oh boy... This brings back unhappy memories from this summer when I paid through the roof to have a dealership replace my timing belt. They stripped that very hole and my engine was leaking oil too. I had to take it back for them to reseal it. The real issue is how to lock in the cam pin during my next oil change. They insist that they can do it without the threads, but I don't see how.

Author:	Hexus [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Big Montana wrote: Oh boy... This brings back unhappy memories from this summer when I paid through the roof to have a dealership replace my timing belt. They stripped that very hole and my engine was leaking oil too. I had to take it back for them to reseal it. The real issue is how to lock in the cam pin during my next oil change. They insist that they can do it without the threads, but I don't see how. Why would you want to lock the cams during an oil change? I know what you meant, but that's what you said. Heh.

Author:	Big Montana [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Hexus wrote: Big Montana wrote: Oh boy... This brings back unhappy memories from this summer when I paid through the roof to have a dealership replace my timing belt. They stripped that very hole and my engine was leaking oil too. I had to take it back for them to reseal it. The real issue is how to lock in the cam pin during my next oil change. They insist that they can do it without the threads, but I don't see how. Why would you want to lock the cams during an oil change? I know what you meant, but that's what you said. Heh. Whoops. You're right. I meant that my next timing belt job may be a problem because of the thread damage. My oil pan plug is fine.

Author:	Mountainman [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Going to try and revive this old thread. Anyone have a better plan to fix stripped threads in the cover than a helicoil? Such a few number of threads, lame design. A dealer stripped it on the latest CRD I got I know, you're all surprised! hmm, maybe I should just make a jig to apply pressure on the locking pin for timing? The pin goes just a hair shy of all of the way in, and then slips past the threads. I imagine if you made something to apply a good amount of force inwards, that the stripped thread could be mostly a non-issue. It didn't leak oil because they sealed it...

Author:	thermorex [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:09 am ]
Post subject:	why is this part leaking oil?
Mountainman wrote: Going to try and revive this old thread. Anyone have a better plan to fix stripped threads in the cover than a helicoil? Such a few number of threads, lame design. A dealer stripped it on the latest CRD I got I know, you're all surprised! hmm, maybe I should just make a jig to apply pressure on the locking pin for timing? The pin goes just a hair shy of all of the way in, and then slips past the threads. I imagine if you made something to apply a good amount of force inwards, that the stripped thread could be mostly a non-issue. It didn't leak oil because they sealed it... To use helicoil you need to remove the cover so you can cut the inside of the helicoil after you install it. I'm not a fan of helicoil to begin with. The alternative is timesert. Search for timesert m10x1.0, I believe this is the original thread. You can find this on eBay. Another alternative is to go 7/16 or metric 12 and rethread your valve cover while on the engine, using plenty grease and backing up constantly to clean the new threads. If you go that way you'll need to fab your own cam locking pins.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
I would Heli-Coil it! Once installed it is a permanent fix with the new stainless steel threads being much stronger than any original threads. After installation, a good mechanic should know how to reach into the hole and break off and retrieve the installation tail of the coil with a small pair of needle nose pliers, It has a breakpoint designed into it and it breaks off fairly easy! Done this many, many times myself on both steel and aluminium engines, transmissions, and a sundry of other parts... I am not a big fan of threaded inserts as I have seen many of them come back out with the bolt or spark plug the next time it is removed. And this can happen even after installing using the red loctite thread locker...

Author:	thermorex [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	why is this part leaking oil?
You want to say a gynecologist, not a good mechanic, lol there is not space to insert a needle nose pliers through the metric 10 hole and if you manage to do that the needle nose pliers won't be strong enough and will twist when trying to break the helicoil end. Timesert is the only thread fix that can be properly applied to that small m10 diameter. Or drill and tap to bigger. Also, even with the tap helicoil comes with, the wires don't seat up properly. Trust me, helicoil was first thing I tried on mine. I ended up removing it. It is good for fixing steel messed up threads, not as good for soft alloys. Timesert comes with special end cap that gets stuck in the aluminum when you torque it in, so it normally will stay in. Talking about good mechanics, nothing is bullet proof, if you torque timesert properly, and torque gently the cam caps, I guarantee the sleeve won't come out. Oh, another issue I remembered: the thread does not go all way through the walls, it stops before exiting, giving you maybe 3/8 inch of threaded space, enough to accommodate the stock short threaded caps. You may decide to tap with the helicoil tap more, but then part of the helicoil will be outside of aluminum on the lower inner side of the valve cover, providing no threading support in that area and can be a receipt for future issues. To be honest, for that particular area, I think the best choice is a sleeved thread fix or tapping to bigger, helicoil is not a good option. In other areas, with bigger diameters and more outside wall area, helicoil is great. Main reason of that threads getting messed up is that the threads in the cover are just about 3/8 inch, so cam holding pins can move and they put a lot of stress in that little threaded area. Also, the threads on the holding pins are just maybe a bit more than 1/4 inch. Going with more thread area and holding pins with more thread would significantly improve the resistance of the threads as the cam pins would not move that easy.

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Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
hmm, alright, many thanks to both of yous. It seems like it would be tough to fab up a pin with a bigger sized bolt since it would be tough to get the tip perfectly centered without a mill. I guess you could eyeball it, and file away until it's close enough? I'd like to make the cam sit perfectly timed if at all possible. I do like the idea of saving a trip to the store and just tap it bigger, and have more threads to work with also. Too bad dealers and businesses in general can't stand behind their work these days. I should be able to get Chrysler to fix it since they botched it

Author:	thermorex [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:16 am ]
Post subject:	why is this part leaking oil?
I made one of the locking pins on the bench grinder... Couldn't find somebody with a lathe willing to just make one pin, if you can believe that. Didn't try too much either to be honest. It wasn't perfectly centered but it worked without forcing it. If you have a lathe, or somebody with one, it's probably a 10 minute job once you give them the bolt. Leave more thread on it though, I'd say 1inch easy. I have a spare cover that I bought from Ebay with messed up threads. I used timesert there. So either one is fine, who knows, you may be ok with helicoil too, I one think it's not good for the valve cover...

Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
Thanks again for the advice. I guess I could mark the center with a tiny punch, and use that as a reference to make fairly exact marks to cut it down to. I'm still thinking of just using something to keep pressure on the miller tool pin to keep it fully seated. two rods of all thread, 6 nuts, and two plates with holes and I might be able to have a tool to deal with this quickly on the 4 engines I'm sitting on. I've only tested the holes on one so far, I wonder what the odds are that the others are damaged.

Author:	thermorex [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	why is this part leaking oil?
If nobody worked before on a timing belt, chances are to be fine. I messed up mine while doing work in the front end (pulleys, cp3, timing belt , water pump, I think I had to lock the cams 4 times, and the 4th time they finally stripped so bad that on the intake side it was leaking oil. Lol. Then I used that bs thing pos helicoil and the threads didn't seat well even after threading with the supplied tap... So I didn't have a choice other than rethreading to bigger.

Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
yeah, they are definitely a weak design. Do you use that tool in the miller set that also fits the CP3? I've found it's too short to get enough leverage to gently counter the pressure of the torque wrench, but plan to add an extension to it. All 4 of these engines either had rockers or a timing belt, so I've got my fingers crossed that this is the only one with pulled threads. They were only bad on the exhaust side.

Author:	thermorex [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: why is this part leaking oil?
No, I don't have any miller tools... I used the sealey tools. For cp3 pulley, I got an ac pulley remover that I had to grind to remove the pulley from cp3... That mofo pulley was a tough cookie, lol, I think I spent about 3 hours modifying the tool and removing the pulley... Then it's hard to push the cp3 outside of the bracket, I'd advise you to lube it if you remove it so next time it'll be easier, if you even have to do that again.