What CRD oil filter do you use?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:39 pm

kidjedi wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Using the new Purolator PSL30001 Synthetic Spin-On Oil Filter which is 99.9% efficient with wire backed synthetic media, NO PAPER. It is designed specifically for synthetic oil. It has a Nitrile gasket and a built in silicone anti drain back valve.
Prior to this new filter becoming available, I use the Pure One PL30001 as I have on several other vehicles for many years...

I had been running the larger Mobil1 and switched to the WIX 51515, but for the last few changes I've been using the PL30001 (mixed media). It's $8 and has a textured finish, so you can actually take it off with your hands. The PL30001 is also a little bit shorter than the other large capacity equivalents, so it fits easier behind the skid plate. I suppose I should start using the PSL30001 with the full synthetic media, but I can't bring myself to spend the extra $5. :oops:

If you are spending the extra money to run a synthetic oil shouldn't you spend a few extra bucks to run a filter like the PSL30001 designed specifically for synthetic oil? Is your motor not worth a few extra dollars??? :roll:

Good quality oil and filters are the cheapest insurance you will ever buy!!! :wink:

undrgnd · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:47 am **Posts:** 194

WWDiesel wrote:

kidjedi wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Using the new Purolator PSL30001 Synthetic Spin-On Oil Filter which is 99.9% efficient with wire backed synthetic media, NO PAPER. It is designed specifically for synthetic oil. It has a Nitrile gasket and a built in silicone anti drain back valve.
Prior to this new filter becoming available, I use the Pure One PL30001 as I have on several other vehicles for many years...

I had been running the larger Mobil1 and switched to the WIX 51515, but for the last few changes I've been using the PL30001 (mixed media). It's $8 and has a textured finish, so you can actually take it off with your hands. The PL30001 is also a little bit shorter than the other large capacity equivalents, so it fits easier behind the skid plate. I suppose I should start using the PSL30001 with the full synthetic media, but I can't bring myself to spend the extra $5. :oops:

If you are spending the extra money to run a synthetic oil shouldn't you spend a few extra bucks to run a filter like the PSL30001 designed specifically for synthetic oil? Is your motor not worth a few extra dollars??? :roll:

Good quality oil and filters are the cheapest insurance you will ever buy!!! :wink:

Agree...I have started to use wix xp. Seems OK. Will tell you in 7000 kms lol

http://www.wixfilters.com/wixxp/index.aspx?ct=wixp

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

geordi wrote:

M1-301 oversized - makes the fill almost exactly 7 quarts.

thats what i use. Quite like it. All though the 10 pack of filters from IDPARTS is tempting.....10 filters for the same price of 3 Mobil 1 filters (the M1 filters are about $22 CDN up here)

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:47 am

Here's the filter to use.

https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/ ... il-filters

https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/ ... artId=3425

I use the oversized 3500 Purchased at Walmart

69Hcode · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:56 pm

Looks like Walmart has all the Bosch filters on clearance. I bought the last 3 from my Walmart. 5 bucks each. Might hit up another Walmart tomorrow.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:38 am

You guys that have oversized filters, keep in mind that most of those open the bypass valve sooner (at a lower psi pressure) than the stock filter, including the Mobil 1 stock sized filter. Last time I checked, from memory, the difference was few psi and some of the big filters bypass at 10-12 psi, which is almost no filtration for the oil in crd since at idle, 200F with Mobil 1 tdt 5w40 I have about 15 psi idling, so make sure you research the filter before you use it.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:57 am

Do not confuse static engine oil pressure with filter differential pressure at which time the filter bypass will open to allow oil to bypass a dirty filter due to filter stoppage and protect the engine.
If your filter bypass valve is being forced open, the filter media material has become clogged, dirty, and overloaded and the filter needs changing... :roll:

As long as the filter media remains fairly clean between filter changes, the filter bypass valve should never open!

Actually, the larger the filter the better versus a smaller filter with less filter surface area! The greater amount of sq. in.s filter media surface area in a filter, the less chance of a filter becoming overloaded or clogged to the point with debris and forcing the bypass valve to open due to a high differential pressure across the filter...

The high end filters like the Mobil 1, Purolator One, Royal Purple, and several others have the largest amounts of filter media surface area... :wink:

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:22 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Do not confuse static engine oil pressure with filter differential pressure at which time the filter bypass will open to allow oil to bypass a dirty filter due to filter stoppage and protect the engine.
If your filter bypass valve is being forced open, the filter media material has become clogged, dirty, and overloaded and the filter needs changing... :roll:

As long as the filter media remains fairly clean between filter changes, the filter bypass valve should never open!

Actually, the larger the filter the better versus a smaller filter with less filter surface area! The greater amount of sq. in.s filter media surface area in a filter, the less chance of a filter becoming overloaded or clogged to the point with debris and forcing the bypass valve to open due to a high differential pressure across the filter...

The high end filters like the Mobil 1, Purolator One, Royal Purple, and several others have the largest amounts of filter media surface area... :wink:

I dont believe that when you start the engine cold, where oil pressure is 80+psi, you'll get any oil passing through the filter. Same thing when you drive with oil pressure at 30+psi. As I know, bypass valve is closing the filter when the pressure is above a threshold (mentioned by the filter manufacturers). When bypass valve is close, that doesn't mean that no oil sips through, but the amount is relatively small, depending on psi and viscosity. This has nothing to do with how clean is the filter. Most filters have bypass valve closing as low as 12psi and it can go a bit over 20psi, but from my research, this is not very often. From memory, and I may be wrong since the research was done many years ago, the stock size Mobil 1 filter bypass closes at 15-ish psi, with the big Bosch very close to 10psi - take it with a grain of salt though.

Like you said, most brand name premium filters have more pleats and more filtering area which makes them better.

peteyz24 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:41 pm

If you have the same pressure on both sides of the valve it will not open because the valve is basically seeing 0 psi.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:26 pm

Here is how I understand this works. Below is the best pic I have found that exemplifies an oil filter similar to our crd:

So the oil goes through the inlet, through the anti drain back valve, passes the endcaps, wants to go through the filter media towards the center tube and back to the outlet in center resulting in filtered oil back to the engine. When the pressure is too big for the oil to go through the filter media, it goes toward the filter end and opens the bypass valve that allows the oil in the center tube. There are several situations I envision:

1. The oil is cold and the pressure is very high. The filter media is too thin to allow any oil to go through, so most oil goes through bypass valve as there is none going through the media due to high oil viscosity. This happens regardless of what oil filter we decide to use, as no bypass valve will stay close at 60+psi.

2. Oil warms up or it is at fully operating temperature. If the oil pressure is lower than the bypass valve opening value, then all oil will go through the filter (considering filter is not clogged). If oil pressure is greater than the bypass valve opening value, then part of the oil will go through the filter media and part through bypass valve. This is the case where differential pressure applies.

Now I'm trying to answer a question: which oil filter is better, from filtration point of view? The smaller oem size oil or the oversized one? On one hand, speaking of Mobil 1 filters, the small one has a higher bypass valve psi value (so it bypasses at higher psi), but less media (surface), which at constant flow through inlet (same engine, same oil) makes the psi for filter media higher than on an oversized Mobil 1 (which has more media surface), which has a lower opening bypass valve, but technically, it may not need to be that high due to having more filter media. I guess it all depends on how each filter is made. I also think it's not easy to calculate the filtered oil with the 2 filters, stock and oversized, but I just realized that having a higher psi opening bypass valve in a filter does not necessarily make it better (or worse for this reason) than a bigger filter with lower opening bypass valve. It al depends on the total bypass area in the center tube walls, as the outlet diameter is the same.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:25 pm

I am not sure without measuring oil pressure on both sides of the oil filter (differential) we can definitively say how much the bypass valve operates during cold startups or sudden RPM accelerations. Many factors can play into the operation of a filter bypass valve such as the manufacturer's ratings, filter media type or cleanliness conditions, oil cleanliness, oil viscosity winter ratings (" "W weight), engine wear, engine RPM's (oil pump speed), oil pressure relief valve setting, oil temperature, etc...

Under ideal conditions, the oil filter bypass valve should never open. Unfortunately we all know ideal conditions are rarely the case!
The purpose of the bypass valve opening is to keep the lubrication points in the engine from becoming oil-starved if the filter were to become clogged or could not pass oil flow through the filter media for any reason.

The operation of the bypass valve is strictly a function of pressure differential across the filter media; inlet pressure minus outlet pressure equals differential pressure (I-O=D). So when you see a filter bypass rated at 8 to 11 psig, it means that it takes that much DIFFERENTIAL pressure to open or make the bypass valve operate. There are a lot of things that can influence this pressure differential.

What has not been mentioned or discussed is BACKPRESSURE! Backpressure is the pressure on the outlet side of the filter which is controlled to a great extent by the different restrictive openings within the engine oiling system that the oil has to flow through after leaving the oil filter. There is always backpressure or simply put, oil pressure on the outlet side of the filter due to the oil having to pass through all the various openings and galleys enroute to it final lubrication destinations such as main bearings/rod bearings, camshafts, turbo bearing, etc... These openings act as orifices which restrict the flow thus creating the backpressure in the oil system on the outlet side of the filter. If there were no backpressure or pressure on the outlet side of the oil filter, the bypass valve would remain open all the time.

From what I have read on the subject, straight cellulose filter media tends to be more flow restrictive than glass and synthetic filter medias for a given flow rating which can and will affect bypass valve operation. And of course, the weight or winter viscosity rating of the oil will certainly affect the ability of the oil to flow through the filter media on colder startups. 0W-40 oil will flow better when cold than say 5W-40 at a given low temperature due to it viscosity rating. The "W" in multi-weight oil ratings stand for Winter viscosity rating. The larger number in the weight rating is the viscosity rating based on the 210 degree standard.

Filter manufacturers build their filters with different bypass pressure settings, how much do these differences matter? I don't think anyone knows for sure, even engineers, and each one can have different advantages and disadvantages depending on operating conditions of the engine, engine type or design, and / or ratings of the oil used.

I still firmly believe that the larger the oil filter you can safely install and use the better, as the larger filter will always have more filter media surface area versus a smaller filter and thus be less restrictive to flow under all conditions and thus less prone to possible bypass valve operations.
While I agree that under certain conditions the filter bypass may open briefly during cold startups, there are an awful lot of factors that can play into and influence its operation that needs to be considered......

:SOMBRERO:

thermorex · **Posted:** Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Correct, good explanation wwdiesel. When I initially considered the bypass valve, I was under the impression that the valve is before filter. Which was a wrong assumption. After researching the concept, I have to stand corrected and agree with what you said. So it's fairly common sense that a smaller oil filter will have a higher pressure opening valve than a bigger filter.

Now, at least theoretically, having a bigger oil filter should increase filtration and should last more miles (or hours) than a smaller filter. Also, in my opinion, for an up to 10k oil change, either filter, smaller stock or oversized, would be enough, even if the bigger filter would have more life left in it at the time of oil change.

Short version, I agree with you.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:48 am

The European, 2.5L CRD from previous years uses a larger filter.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:17 am

thermorex wrote:

Now, at least theoretically, having a bigger oil filter should increase filtration and should last more miles (or hours) than a smaller filter. Also, in my opinion, for an up to 10k oil change, either filter, smaller stock or oversized, would be enough, even if the bigger filter would have more life left in it at the time of oil change.
Short version, I agree with you.

Thanks!

And yes, bigger is always better because it physically contains more filter surface area and therefore will always be less restrictive to oil flow than a comparable smaller filter!
Personally, I never run oil or filters over 5k, they both are just too inexpensive to run longer and risk engine wear... :roll:

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:03 am

WWDiesel wrote:

I never run oil or filters over 5k, they both are just too inexpensive to run longer and risk engine wear

Yes, I agree, and furthermore, is even the larger size filter large enough to hold the particles created by the 5000-mile oil change interval, we may need an even larger one if the synthetic oil we're using is capable fo going the extra miles. Just saying.

And for that same reason, I don't see how any oil company can suggest extended oil change intervals on the same filter when we know how bad engine oil conditions become in our engine.

How can Amsoil, for instance, justify 25,000-mile oil changes? Where do the rock hard particles that are created by the engine go? I don't think that the oil filter can't hold it all, it would fill up in just a few thousand miles...I don't see it.

The synthetic oil may be of superior quality to last that amount of miles, but the filter will not hold all the soot created by our diesel. We may get away with extended oil change intervals if we change the oil filter mid way before changing the motor oil.

The gritty carbon particles that are created by our CRD after just a few hundred miles of driving, will increase to 100 times that figure at the 5000-mile mark. Those particles become destructive sand blast media shot about the engine destroying its moving parts.

I believe that extended oil change intervals destroy our engines not because of bad oil, but because of the destructive rock hard particles that are thrown about the engine.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:07 pm

racertracer wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

I never run oil or filters over 5k, they both are just too inexpensive to run longer and risk engine wear

Yes, I agree, and furthermore, is even the larger size filter large enough to hold the particles created by the 5000-mile oil change interval, we may need an even larger one if the synthetic oil we're using is capable fo going the extra miles. Just saying.

And for that same reason, I don't see how any oil company can suggest extended oil change intervals on the same filter when we know how bad engine oil conditions become in our engine.

How can Amsoil, for instance, justify 25,000-mile oil changes? Where do the rock hard particles that are created by the engine go? I don't think that the oil filter can't hold it all, it would fill up in just a few thousand miles...I don't see it.

The synthetic oil may be of superior quality to last that amount of miles, but the filter will not hold all the soot created by our diesel. We may get away with extended oil change intervals if we change the oil filter mid way before changing the motor oil.

The gritty carbon particles that are created by our CRD after just a few hundred miles of driving, will increase to 100 times that figure at the 5000-mile mark. Those particles become destructive sand blast media shot about the engine destroying its moving parts.

I believe that extended oil change intervals destroy our engines not because of bad oil, but because of the destructive rock hard particles that are thrown about the engine.

spot on with everything you stated X2! :wink:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:40 pm

racertracer wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

I never run oil or filters over 5k, they both are just too inexpensive to run longer and risk engine wear

Yes, I agree, and furthermore, is even the larger size filter large enough to hold the particles created by the 5000-mile oil change interval, we may need an even larger one if the synthetic oil we're using is capable fo going the extra miles. Just saying.

And for that same reason, I don't see how any oil company can suggest extended oil change intervals on the same filter when we know how bad engine oil conditions become in our engine.

How can Amsoil, for instance, justify 25,000-mile oil changes? Where do the rock hard particles that are created by the engine go? I don't think that the oil filter can't hold it all, it would fill up in just a few thousand miles...I don't see it.

The synthetic oil may be of superior quality to last that amount of miles, but the filter will not hold all the soot created by our diesel. We may get away with extended oil change intervals if we change the oil filter mid way before changing the motor oil.

The gritty carbon particles that are created by our CRD after just a few hundred miles of driving, will increase to 100 times that figure at the 5000-mile mark. Those particles become destructive sand blast media shot about the engine destroying its moving parts.

I believe that extended oil change intervals destroy our engines not because of bad oil, but because of the destructive rock hard particles that are thrown about the engine.

If the oil is good for 20k miles but the filter only 5k, replace only the filter and top off the oil.

If you really want to know exactly what the filter is able to trap, cut it open and inspect the filter element.
Also, send a sample of your oil off for analysis.

All diesel engines get black soot in the oil. Thats why the oil turns black. Many diesel engines run for over 500k miles before getting their first overhaul.

The fact that the oil turns black so quickly shows that the particle size of the soot in the oil is smaller than what can be filtered. As long as this soot stays suspended in the oil it will not become embedded into the engine bearings.

Im not saying everyone should run a 10k mile oil change interval. Go with whatever schedule works best for your driving conditions.
I myself go about every 8k miles.

If you want to run a really, really extended oil change interval, install a bypass filter system. Or, even better, a centrifuge system.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:39 pm

Doesnt pretty much every car ever operate at over 12 psi at anything but idle? So if this is the case then wouldnt every car that uses a 12 psi bypass just run open all the time if the pressure ACROSS THE FILTER was actaully 12 psi?

Gotta go with WWDiesel on this one. Subaru's 2.5L had this same issue where the OE filters had higher bypass specs than a vast majority of the 3rd party filters. I dont recall any engines blowing up because of dirty oil and most people were not buying the subie filter.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:42 pm

flash7210 wrote:

racertracer wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

I never run oil or filters over 5k, they both are just too inexpensive to run longer and risk engine wear

Yes, I agree, and furthermore, is even the larger size filter large enough to hold the particles created by the 5000-mile oil change interval, we may need an even larger one if the synthetic oil we're using is capable fo going the extra miles. Just saying.

And for that same reason, I don't see how any oil company can suggest extended oil change intervals on the same filter when we know how bad engine oil conditions become in our engine.

How can Amsoil, for instance, justify 25,000-mile oil changes? Where do the rock hard particles that are created by the engine go? I don't think that the oil filter can't hold it all, it would fill up in just a few thousand miles...I don't see it.

The synthetic oil may be of superior quality to last that amount of miles, but the filter will not hold all the soot created by our diesel. We may get away with extended oil change intervals if we change the oil filter mid way before changing the motor oil.

The gritty carbon particles that are created by our CRD after just a few hundred miles of driving, will increase to 100 times that figure at the 5000-mile mark. Those particles become destructive sand blast media shot about the engine destroying its moving parts.

I believe that extended oil change intervals destroy our engines not because of bad oil, but because of the destructive rock hard particles that are thrown about the engine.

If the oil is good for 20k miles but the filter only 5k, replace only the filter and top off the oil.

If you really want to know exactly what the filter is able to trap, cut it open and inspect the filter element.
Also, send a sample of your oil off for analysis.

All diesel engines get black soot in the oil. Thats why the oil turns black. Many diesel engines run for over 500k miles before getting their first overhaul.

The fact that the oil turns black so quickly shows that the particle size of the soot in the oil is smaller than what can be filtered. As long as this soot stays suspended in the oil it will not become embedded into the engine bearings.

Im not saying everyone should run a 10k mile oil change interval. Go with whatever schedule works best for your driving conditions.
I myself go about every 8k miles.

If you want to run a really, really extended oil change interval, install a bypass filter system. Or, even better, a centrifuge system.

Even my amsoil bypass system with a 2 micron filter allows the oil to turn black with soot.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:45 pm

Centrifuge? Can you elaborate on the model and from what company your centrifuge is from?

What CRD oil filter do you use?

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