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| Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt start http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74291 |
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| Author: | Elgin [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt start |
I replaced the sepentine tensioner and belt on my 2006 CRD. The tensioner froze up and the belt broke. Now the Jeep will not restart. It cranks over tries to start but doesn't take off. The timing belt is still in place since I thought it may broken and thrown off the timing. Its winter so I have plugged in the engine heater and charged the battery. I don't see anything obvious that has come unconnected. The CRD has 153K on it and I have owned since 65K. Any thoughts on what I can try next? Thank you. |
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| Author: | msilbernagel [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
There have been cases where, when the accessory/serp belt breaks it can wrap around things and jolt the engine sufficiently to either break the timing belt or cause it to skip a tooth. Was the timing belt serviced/changed at 100k? You can check the timing using the engine cover access plugs, to see if they line up when the engine is 90ATDC - which uses another pin, or 6mm allen, in the flywheel to confirm alignment. At this point, if nothing else was changed (e.g. filters, etc) then I'd suspect a timing belt slip. Mark |
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| Author: | Elgin [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
I wondered if a belt slip was possible. I will check the timing. |
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| Author: | Steve_S [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
Elgin wrote: I wondered if a belt slip was possible. I will check the timing. Remember that in the event of the timing belt receiving some kind of resistance or jolt it may go temporarily out of time for a second or so which will then cause damage and then the belt goes back into time. Therefore correct timing now doesn't mean it hasn't jammed at some point. Hopefully not the case, just saying. Steve |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
At 153K, was the timing belt changed at 100k? Do you have any mods? like GDE tune or any other type of EGR delete? Do you know how to check the timing correctly? |
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| Author: | cevans [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
While the above scenario is concevable, I've NEVER seen either occur. The motor won't "jump time" and then "regain time" ever. If something jams up enough the cam sprockets *could* slip (if they were under-torqued) but then they'd be stuck out of time. Cranking is a good sign. Are you sure you didn't just unplug something to get a better shot at the tensioner. |
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| Author: | Elgin [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
No the timing belt does need changed it is way over due. I planned to utilize some online instruction for checking the timing. First, I need to get it to run so I can move it out of the snow. I have scanned for loose connections, I just don't see anything that would effect starting. Is there something that needs reset after it died on the road? You guys will probably not like this but I tried some starting fluid, nothing different. Thank you! |
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| Author: | msilbernagel [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
At 153,000 miles without a timing belt change - it's broken and won't run again until you replace the rocker arms (and everything else that should go with a timing belt change). The broken accessory belt pushed it over the edge, it seems. Attempting to start it will just make things worse and could potentially cost you a head as well. Please diagnose before attempting to start it again. You'll need another means to move the vehicle. Mark |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
153k on the first timing belt???  You need a good CRD mechanic. If it jumped time and broke lifters you will be doing more damage trying to start. Trying starting fluid in a diesel? VERY BAD! Not only do you need to open up the engine for the timing belt but you also need to remove the intake to inspect the rockers, lifters and cams. At minimum all the rocker/ lifters will need replaced. I would say $1500 in parts and then there is labor?
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| Author: | ChesterCRD [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
Obviously it's a bad idea to run the timing belt this far past the change interval, but is there any indication of a problem with the timing beyond the no-start? If not then it might be safe to run it or at least not much more risky than what you've been doing for the past 10K miles. Check your fuel filter head. Pump it and see whether it's firm. If not, pump and bleed it until you get fuel and then try to start it. If it's cold, give the glow plugs 15 seconds or so to warm up (turn key, but don't engage starter, wait 15 secs, then engage starter). Once you get it inside, get that timing belt changed.  Good Luck! |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt start |
I would just get a wrench and try to rotate the engine clockwise. If there is anything that prevents it to turn, then I'd say its cheaper to tow it than to spend more money trying to fix what could break further, especially that you may end up towing it anyways... |
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| Author: | jeepdan [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
thermorex wrote: I would just get a wrench and try to rotate the engine clockwise. If there is anything that prevents it to turn, then I'd say its cheaper to tow it than to spend more money trying to fix what could break further, especially that you may end up towing it anyways... That's pretty good advice. Then, if it turns over alright, get the timing pins and check that valve timing!! |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
I broke rockers and the engine would turn over by hand without a problem. It took me a few days to convince myself to remove the top of the engine. Mine also jumped time upon starting. If the Serpentine belt was frozen up. The starter may have caused the t belt to jump a tooth. Yes... it may not be a timing or rocker issue keeping it from starting. But it its not it will be soon. I will place my $$$ on it. |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
kjjet wrote: I broke rockers and the engine would turn over by hand without a problem. It took me a few days to convince myself to remove the top of the engine. Mine also jumped time upon starting. If the Serpentine belt was frozen up. The starter may have caused the t belt to jump a tooth. Yes... it may not be a timing or rocker issue keeping it from starting. But it its not it will be soon. I will place my $$$ on it. Makes good sense it would turn over with broke rockers, the valves would all be up, what is to stop it? OTOH would it crank very hard with the starter if none of the valves were opening? |
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| Author: | jeepdan [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
flman wrote: kjjet wrote: I broke rockers and the engine would turn over by hand without a problem. It took me a few days to convince myself to remove the top of the engine. Mine also jumped time upon starting. If the Serpentine belt was frozen up. The starter may have caused the t belt to jump a tooth. Yes... it may not be a timing or rocker issue keeping it from starting. But it its not it will be soon. I will place my $$$ on it. Makes good sense it would turn over with broke rockers, the valves would all be up, what is to stop it? OTOH would it crank very hard with the starter if none of the valves were opening? If the timing belt has failed, there is always a chance that a valve bent before it's rocker "took one for the team" You will need to rotate the engine clockwise by hand anyhow to line things up for the pins , you might find a very stiff spot. For starters, get the proper tools and at least check the timing, then replace that 153,000 mile timing belt!! If the belt has failed you are going to have to go in deeper, still needing the proper tools. |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
jeepdan wrote: If the timing belt has failed, there is always a chance that a valve bent before it's rocker "took one for the team" I thought about that, bent valves would release the compression. |
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| Author: | Elgin [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
Its a balmy 45 degress so I have been out checking your ideas on the 2006 Jeep. I turned it over with a wrench until my arm was tired. It turned over fine and came up to compression each time and I didn't hear any grating. Still its still possible something broken without opening it up. For comparison I tried the 2005(its been running for a few months) and it feels the same. I bled the fuel pump filter and have a solid stream of fuel. The timing belt is not broken. It will will not run. There has been an intermittent problem with this Jeep(2006), prior to the belt tensioner failing. Driving down the road, the engine speed drops down into limp mode and dies when the jeep stops. Pull the key out of the ignition wait a few minutes and it restarts and runs normal. It may repeat this action later in the day or run for two weeks without a problem. I'm not sure the problem is related or not. With all the electronic "stuff" running this engine I have to wonder. Thank you |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt start |
Usually limp mode has some cel codes associated, some of those codes may be associated with your 2006 jeep issue. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
Elgin wrote: Its a balmy 45 degress so I have been out checking your ideas on the 2006 Jeep. I turned it over with a wrench until my arm was tired. It turned over fine and came up to compression each time and I didn't hear any grating. Still its still possible something broken without opening it up. For comparison I tried the 2005(its been running for a few months) and it feels the same. I bled the fuel pump filter and have a solid stream of fuel. The timing belt is not broken. It will will not run. There has been an intermittent problem with this Jeep(2006), prior to the belt tensioner failing. Driving down the road, the engine speed drops down into limp mode and dies when the jeep stops. Pull the key out of the ignition wait a few minutes and it restarts and runs normal. It may repeat this action later in the day or run for two weeks without a problem. I'm not sure the problem is related or not. With all the electronic "stuff" running this engine I have to wonder. Thank you I would check the timing by placing the engine at 90 past tdc (crank timing mark) installing a 6mm hex key in the flywheel and checking the cam pins to see if they line up. Note: it may take up to 3 times turning the engine by hand to get the correct cylinder at 90 deg past TDC and matching cams. The manual gives you all the steps. If you need some more detailed procedures just PM me. My guess is that it jumped time. |
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| Author: | midlifejeepcrisis [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replace serpentine belt and tensioner now CRD doesnt sta |
Just based on my own recent experience, I would say the limp mode thing that was going on could be related to the MAP sensor. Has it been cleaned or replaced? I don't know if the trauma caused by the belt tensioner issue could have exasperated the problem or not, to the point of interfering with the engine turning over. Maybe coincidental? This past week I have experienced the tensioner failing upon starting the engine cold. It's happened twice, but it managed to "tension up" on it's own. I am coming due to perform the timing belt maintenance, and the alternator is really noisy. I just figured I would change the timing belt and associated parts as well as the alternator at the same time, but now it looks like I'll be doing the tensioner as well. I keep seeing huge dollars signs before my eyes as I am researching this stuff. |
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