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CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74417		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JEBCRD [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Well it didn't take long for me to need some help. I just bought my KJ last week, it has on the clock 57,xxx miles and it has been running great. I've been loveing the mileage it's been getting. My daughter has been driving it to school. I put fuel in it Sun. She drove it Monday to school and back home. No problems noted. It set all day Tues. She was going to drive this morning and she cranked it for a cycle and it didn't start. She cranked it again and said it ran for about a minute then quit. She cranked it 3 more times and it never tried to start. I'm thinking maybe the filter so when i get home from work i do the bleed and pump just to make sure there's no air. I got a few bubbles at first but mostly clean fuel. I have no idea about this other than im going to pick up a new filter tomorrow and try it. I called the person i got it from to see if he ever had this happen to him and he told me he hadn't and that the filter was changed not very long ago. like 3-4 months ago. This rig has been maintained well so it's strange to me the way this has happened. Do any of you guys have any suggestion as to what i might check. I've owned a dodge diesel for 13 yrs and have manage to keep it going,but i'm just learning about this little engine. Any tips would be great. I'm just glad it's in the drive way and not at school when it decided not to start. I did notice the engine light was on while trying to start this evening. I havn't drove it enough to know when the light goes out like all the others or after it starts. like i said i'm new to this thing. Any suggestions would be great.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Check for codes first. An EWAG says crank sensor. But that is just an EWAG. Either that, or she is trying to show her new family that she is the boss no matter what.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Author:  woodtick [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
If there was air in the fuel, it could be beyond the filter. If this is the case long cranking may be needed before it will start.

Or maybe the spark plugs are fouled. :ROTFL:
Author:  thomas04 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Good evening and welcome to the forum.

Maybe take a look at your battery post and make sure you are getting a solid connection on both posts. When the same situation happened to me there was corrosion on negative terminal preventing a good connection to ground.

Also, there is a fuseable link between either the negative terminal and alternator or negative terminal and relay/fuse box towards the front of the vehicle under the hood. Another possible point to look into.

Hope this helps.

Peace,

Thomas
Author:  Hexus [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
All the obvious joking above aside, Choochoo is right, check for codes first. That will rule out the Crank Sensor etc. If there's air bubbles in your fuel line I would lean more towards the fuel head than the filter.

It never hurts to change the filter anyways, but the first generation fuel head is known to leak, unplug both of the power supply plugs facing towards the front of the vehicle and look for any wet spots as well, there shouldn't be any.

If you're getting air into the system, the most likely culprit is that fuel head. If you haven't familiarized yourself with the Noob Guide (appears you have if you bled the fuel head though) make sure you do that as well!

Let us know what you find, and keep in mind that most over-the-counter OBD-II scanners won't work on this italian "female-dog" engine.
Author:  tonycrd [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Jeb, have a look at this: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

(If you haven't already.)

Funny part is..it ran for a minute before it decided to die. My thoughts are Crank or Camshaft sensor. See if you can get the codes from the OBD.
Author:  JEBCRD [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Image

Thanks for all the reply's. I read the noobguide again. It makes more since now that i have the jeep in front of me. How do i get the codes to see whats referred to. Is there something that i can buy? It's in the driveway so i have to check them here. Is there a secret push this turn that this many times to retrieve them. About the crank sensor where's it located? I didn't see it in the noobguide pictures. All this terminology is the same as with my Ram so I should be able to get it going with the right info. After studying the Noobguide it looks like a lot of weekend projects are in store for me and the KJ. Thanks you guy's for all the help and input. Keep the suggestion coming. I'll keep an update as i progress.

JEB
Author:  naturist [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Hey, welcome to L.O.S.T. and sorry to hear you've had a problem with a newly purchased ride.

Does it crank, but slowly? Being a diesel, it's gotta crank fairly briskly in order to start, and if the battery has been drained far enough to slow the cranking speed, it won't start at all. Might need to put it on a charger.

Air in the fuel line can also cause failure to start, but the ran-for-a-minute-then-stopped-and-won't-restart suggests there's more to the story.

Some CRDs can show you a code with a twist this, push that sequence, and some do not. No rhyme nor reason to it, but there it is. There are relatively inexpensive code readers on the market if you can't borrow one. I picked up one for less than $50 at Harbor Freight a couple years ago, and it's been very helpful. You might be able to borrow one from Advance Auto, Auto Zone, or Pep Boys.

Nobody else has mentioned it, but at 58,000 miles, I'm sure the timing belt has not been changed yet. It is supposed to be a 100,000 mile belt, but it is a rubber belt, and it's getting old enough that I think I'd replace it just due to age. It is NOT the problem you have right now, I'm fairly sure, as you haven't mentioned ugly crunching noises. But when you do change the timing belt, do the water pump and tensioners, too.

Good luck finding the problem, and do let us know what codes you get.
Author:  tonycrd [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Jeb, it's the same trick Jeep has used for a hundred years, put key in ignition then turn quickly see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV4-3o1lsN0

And on a KJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... NKDnKU9I8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... pjqM2q7pjY

I managed to get codes from a 2005CRD, but not all KJ's are that willing to show you their secrets...interesting that on a WJ after 2005 you turn key 5 times, maybe that's true for KJ's too. Try it, it won't cost you anything :wink:
Author:  JEBCRD [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Tony thanks, I watched the YouTube videos and that's what I will try thanks for the heads up. I will also probably check into buying one of those readers from Harbor freight since they have worked. When I get home this afternoon I will try To get the codes by the method of the turn the key three times.
Author:  thermorex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
JEBCRD wrote:
Image

Thanks for all the reply's. I read the noobguide again. It makes more since now that i have the jeep in front of me. How do i get the codes to see whats referred to. Is there something that i can buy? It's in the driveway so i have to check them here. Is there a secret push this turn that this many times to retrieve them. About the crank sensor where's it located? I didn't see it in the noobguide pictures. All this terminology is the same as with my Ram so I should be able to get it going with the right info. After studying the Noobguide it looks like a lot of weekend projects are in store for me and the KJ. Thanks you guy's for all the help and input. Keep the suggestion coming. I'll keep an update as i progress.

JEB


I'd look at sir sam's web page

http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

And download the manuals. The service manual should show you the location of all sensors, among other useful things.

I'd also do the timing belt, as naturist mentioned, if you just replace the timing belt (and maybe the pulleys and tensioner once you're there) it's a fairly few hours easy job and you don't necessary need the special tools as long as you do your own marks for fuel pump and cam sprockets. Water pump should last you way more than 100k, I wouldn't change it now, but I would definitely do a coolant flush.

In regards to obd scanner, I'd get a good one from the beginning, since it would help on the long run with troubleshooting (you get more info about temperatures, voltages etc, first thing that comes in mind is troubleshooting oxygen sensors). Something like this:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 0965770456
Author:  dirtmover [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
thermorex wrote:
In regards to obd scanner, I'd get a good one from the beginning, since it would help on the long run with troubleshooting (you get more info about temperatures, voltages etc, first thing that comes in mind is troubleshooting oxygen sensors). Something like this:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 0965770456



Spending this sort of money is a waste since the half assed OBDII implementation that Chrysler came up with on our Jeep won't allow you to use most of the features of this scanner. Plus, the oxygen sensor on our CRD never fails :ROTFL:

You should be able to pick something basic up for about $30 that will read and clear codes. Alternatively, if you already have an Android device a cheap Bluetooth OBD interface and the Torque app will set you back about $15 and is quite fun to have.
Author:  kjjet [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Sounds like a air in fuel problem to me. I would be sure to have a 2nd gen fuel head. Yes...also a good battery with at least 800 Cold Cranking Amps is a must.

As stated T-belts need changed before 100k, but years of use is not good. In the near future i would look into a new belt even if you change the belt only.

Good luck!
Author:  thermorex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
dirtmover wrote:
thermorex wrote:
In regards to obd scanner, I'd get a good one from the beginning, since it would help on the long run with troubleshooting (you get more info about temperatures, voltages etc, first thing that comes in mind is troubleshooting oxygen sensors). Something like this:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 0965770456



Spending this sort of money is a waste since the half assed OBDII implementation that Chrysler came up with on our Jeep won't allow you to use most of the features of this scanner. Plus, the oxygen sensor on our CRD never fails :ROTFL:

You should be able to pick something basic up for about $30 that will read and clear codes. Alternatively, if you already have an Android device a cheap Bluetooth OBD interface and the Torque app will set you back about $15 and is quite fun to have.


Agree, if you have relatively new cars, or just the crd, isn't really worth spending $$$ for such a premium tool. For me and the like, that have older gassers, it is. I never consider a good tool that I need wasted money :). Got my money back already finding the bad grounding on my xj in few minutes, rather than just throw in parts that may fix the issues.
Author:  JEBCRD [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Well I did the code thing with the key it doesn't work on my jeep. I called the local Jeep dealer and it was like talking to CIA you could hardly get any answer straight answer from them. They kept saying well bringing in them will check it out I told them He'll it's stuck in the driveway I can't get it in,well if you need our help give us a call,let us know if we can help. Wellwhat do you think I'm doing, I hate dealing with our Chrysler service dept. It has been suggested about the battery , it has a good strong battery , the guy replaced red top for a red top. It cranks good and strong. I check the filter housing and I think it is the second generation because the plug looks like it has been spliced. I really need to find out what code the thing has thrown the check engine light stays on so I guess that will be my next move if I can't find one to borrow I may have to purchase one. I have looked for leakage ,cracks and no fuel coming out of the filter and everything seems good there, so I'm not sure if it's fuel related or not now. I do plan to change the filter but seems odd if filter is bad one gets a check light on. I'll keep digging, it may take some time but with y'all's help I'm confident ill get it fixed
Author:  thermorex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Go to autozone and buy the cheapest one, read the codes, then return it saying you're looking for something better, lol.
Author:  JEBCRD [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
thermorex wrote:
Go to autozone and buy the cheapest one, read the codes, then return it saying you're looking for something better, lol.


Well i went to Autozone and they had a loner i could take home. It's not anything fancy; it just gives a code, i hooked it up pushed the button to read and it came up "0-CODES. Whats weird is it also said Malfunction indication light OFF which should be a sign that all's good and no MIL should be on, but my engine light is on. Then while reading the booklet with the key on, the light goes out. I was reading for a good bit, but i cycled the key off to on and the engine light came back on. I guess since i have no codes, i guess that i will go ahead and change the filter. I guess the thing is plugged up solid. I can't believe no fuel at all is getting through. This is really frustrating. I've cranked on it so much the battery is starting to get week so i put the charger on it; will pick up a filter tomorrow and replace Sat. and see if i have any luck.
Author:  CATCRD [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
Odds are that you really do have a code. Maybe P0093. Most scanners can't read the CRD. I would get that fuel filter changed and air bled, then see how things go.
Author:  thermorex [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
JEBCRD wrote:
thermorex wrote:
Go to autozone and buy the cheapest one, read the codes, then return it saying you're looking for something better, lol.


Well i went to Autozone and they had a loner i could take home. It's not anything fancy; it just gives a code, i hooked it up pushed the button to read and it came up "0-CODES. Whats weird is it also said Malfunction indication light OFF which should be a sign that all's good and no MIL should be on, but my engine light is on. Then while reading the booklet with the key on, the light goes out. I was reading for a good bit, but i cycled the key off to on and the engine light came back on. I guess since i have no codes, i guess that i will go ahead and change the filter. I guess the thing is plugged up solid. I can't believe no fuel at all is getting through. This is really frustrating. I've cranked on it so much the battery is starting to get week so i put the charger on it; will pick up a filter tomorrow and replace Sat. and see if i have any luck.

Few years ago I bought the cheapest acctron they had at autozone, mainly to turn the maf code off while going to a long drive so I can see other codes in case they popped out. That obd2 reader had no issue reading the codes.

As a last resort, get 2 clean milk gallon jugs, fill one up with diesel, put the end of the "in" from filter in the filled one, the return in the empty one and see how it works. This way you can eliminate any leak from/to the tank. If it still won't work, bypass the filter and do the trick again with the diesel jug straight to the diesel pump. Just make sure the diesel and the gallon jug with diesel is very clean, so you won't clog the injectors since you run without filter. This way you can also test the fuel pump and see if the fuel is actually getting sucked from the filled gallon. You will need couple feet of 3/8 fuel hose, or if you have transparent 3/8, use that to see the flow. You can connect the pump hose to an extension hose using any 3/8 pipe, like a piece of fuel line or break line.
Author:  Billwill [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.
The way I read the codes on my 2002 CRD is to turn the ignition ON/OFf 4 times rapidly without starting....the codes should then display from oldest to newest. Beware that often the last two digits are transposed.

Is your Auto Shut Down (ASD) relay energizing? This is in the fuse box under the hood.
Try swapping it with an identical one next to it.
Try removing the ASD relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 in the empty socket and see what happens.

Do you have the SKIS light...amber light of key symbol with line going through it....come ON and stay ON while cranking? :?
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