LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Thinking about Renting Tools

I would rent out everything but the VM 1085 (cam lock tool). Thats the only thing that has lots of value. Plus..the VM 1085 is really not worth using when there are several tool's we have made that work as good or BETTER as far as i am concerned. The 6mm works better in the flywheel also. The Cam locking pins are the only useful tools. MY :2cents:

Well, I did it and mine runs great. You spin the crank every so slightly counter-clockwise to take any slack out between the pump and the crank and then use your other hand to push the belt on then spin it back, all while the pin is still in the flywheel and the locking tool is on and the pins are in the intake/exhaust if you want.

You are only spinning it maybe 1/8 of an inch, how else would you get the slack out of the belt and ensure you aren't a tooth off on your timing belt?

It's in Sir Sam's Video and it worked for me, mine is 100% running perfect with everything in perfect time.

Maybe you have never done it that way, doesn't mean it doesn't work and isn't perfectly safe. It's actually more intuitive, but god forbid people with mechanical minds step on the FSM. :roll:

Hexus wrote:

The reason the cams sprokets are loosened is to let the belt move them, therefore you have no slack. No need to mark the sprokets, they should move!

Like i said, I dont want to be thought of as a smart A... but lots of people think its ok to do the timing belt change without loosing the sprokets...Sorry Its not doing it correctly by the manual. Let the flack start now.....

Used a white paint pencil, marked sprockets and belt, transferred marks to new belt and put her back together. My Sport still runs as perfect with the new belt as it did with the old.

Author:	Hexus [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Thinking about Renting Tools
Alright, so I have my full tool set and my Jeep is 100% fixed now. I'm considering renting out my tools to (Active) members of this forum. I have some concerns though, because if GDE is having tool issues and isn't renting them any more, obviously people will be people, and I want my tools. What are your guys thoughts on this? I would be willing to loan them to active members here for a nominal fee, but what is a fair fee? $50? $100? How do you swing the deposit? I have the Full Sealey set with all 3 pins that 100% verified work great, the tensioning wrench, and I have the actual legendary VM.1085. I'm honestly not doing this to make money, but if I can pay off the tool I bought to fix mine it'll definitely be worth my time/effort, and I'd be helping people in the mean time, which is another good "why I should do it." Thoughts/Comments most welcome, everyone sound off please. Thanks!

Author:	thermorex [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Thinking about Renting Tools
The only issue that I see is the deposit for vm 1085 (cam lock tool). That is a ridiculously expensive one, and you should charge a deposit fee of it's value to make sure it won't get wings. Now, who is willing to deposit 5-600? Maybe not that much but 3-400 at least... Because if you don't charge that much, some people may keep it...

Author:	dieseldoesit [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
GDE stopped renting the tools out?

Author:	cevans [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
IDParts tried this too - it always fails because some yahoo either doesn't return the tools or damages them in the process. Then, they are damaged, and you say "they are damaged" and the person says "wasn't me" and then you've got a $500 deposit charge that they are contesting.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
Just a thought but in addition to charging a deposit consistent with the cost of the tool(s) being rented take digital pictures of the tool(s) before shipping out. I don't see what the problem would be with the former a) the renter is saving a bucket of money in the long run and b) that's standard practice if you "borrow/rent" tools from like AutoZone as I've done in the past. Digital pictures, especially if sent to the renter as part of the rental agreement, would terminate any "it wasn't me" claims although that does leave open a possible excess wear and tear debate. Just thinking out loud so to speak.

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Author:	kjjet [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
I would rent out everything but the VM 1085 (cam lock tool). Thats the only thing that has lots of value. Plus..the VM 1085 is really not worth using when there are several tool's we have made that work as good or BETTER as far as i am concerned. The 6mm works better in the flywheel also. The Cam locking pins are the only useful tools. MY

Author:	Hexus [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
kjjet wrote: I would rent out everything but the VM 1085 (cam lock tool). Thats the only thing that has lots of value. Plus..the VM 1085 is really not worth using when there are several tool's we have made that work as good or BETTER as far as i am concerned. The 6mm works better in the flywheel also. The Cam locking pins are the only useful tools. MY The VM.1085 is a beast. After I actually used it I felt 100 times better for having it. It's machined very closely to everything in there, it goes over both of the bolt pillar protrusions in the front of the engine, and locks everything in there tight, very tight. There is 0 chance that anything will slip or pop while you use it, and I felt really comfortable torquing the crap out of those bolts as required. I tried the 6mm in the flywheel and was not comfortable with it. Even when you have to backspin the crank to get the timing belt seated properly so you don't have an extra tooth, there's a chance that it could fall out. I had no issue using the locking pin in the flywheel, and felt more comfortable doing it honestly.

Author:	kjjet [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
Agreed... The VM 1085 is a beast. But to me, it just gets in the way. I do like how it works. But it's much quicker and easy to use a cam holding tool. VW has the same type cam system and they use a holding tool. I've used them both. Just my choice. As far as back spinning the crank???? I have never done that. NEVER! It takes me a total of 10 min's to put a belt on and the crank never gets moved. The hardest part is setting the pump timing. I don't know who suggested moving the crank? But its not in the KJ CRD service manual. Sorry... if i am comming off as a smart A... but there is no need. The only thing i can think of is. Are you leaving the VM 1085 installed during the installation of the belt? If you are? You should not. It should be installed only to loosen and tighten the cam bolts. The reason for loosing the cam bolts is LOST. Loosing the cam bolts provides the belt no restrictions and the belt just slides on. Anyone wanting a timing procedure without moving the crank just MP me your email and I will FWD it to you.

Author:	Hexus [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
Well, I did it and mine runs great. You spin the crank every so slightly counter-clockwise to take any slack out between the pump and the crank and then use your other hand to push the belt on then spin it back, all while the pin is still in the flywheel and the locking tool is on and the pins are in the intake/exhaust if you want. You are only spinning it maybe 1/8 of an inch, how else would you get the slack out of the belt and ensure you aren't a tooth off on your timing belt? It's in Sir Sam's Video and it worked for me, mine is 100% running perfect with everything in perfect time. Maybe you have never done it that way, doesn't mean it doesn't work and isn't perfectly safe. It's actually more intuitive, but god forbid people with mechanical minds step on the FSM.

Author:	MRausch82 [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
In a few weeks ill need the tools, unless I can come up with the money to pay someone to do it, which won't happen most likely. Anyone nearby wanna help or do theirs at the same time?

Author:	kjjet [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
Hexus wrote: Well, I did it and mine runs great. You spin the crank every so slightly counter-clockwise to take any slack out between the pump and the crank and then use your other hand to push the belt on then spin it back, all while the pin is still in the flywheel and the locking tool is on and the pins are in the intake/exhaust if you want. You are only spinning it maybe 1/8 of an inch, how else would you get the slack out of the belt and ensure you aren't a tooth off on your timing belt? It's in Sir Sam's Video and it worked for me, mine is 100% running perfect with everything in perfect time. Maybe you have never done it that way, doesn't mean it doesn't work and isn't perfectly safe. It's actually more intuitive, but god forbid people with mechanical minds step on the FSM. First.... the end result is good and that's what matters most. The reason the cams sprokets are loosened is to let the belt move them, therefore you have no slack. No need to mark the sprokets, they should move! Like i said, I dont want to be thought of as a smart A... but lots of people think its ok to do the timing belt change without loosing the sprokets...Sorry Its not doing it correctly by the manual. Let the flack start now..... Here is a part of the procedure. minus the Pic's Jeep Liberty CRD Timing Belt Replacement Procedure (2.8l diesel) Revised by KJJET 1. Remove cooling fan and shroud. *In order to remove them there is two methods. A. Remove the grill, bumper, inner grill and electric fan. Then remove the bolts holding the intercooler and radiator. Now with the intercooler and radiator pulled back the fan and shroud can be accessed. Remove the shroud intercooler and radiator then move on to removing the fan. OR B. Remove the grill and gain access to the intercooler and radiator bolts and remove them. This will give you a inch or two to access the shroud and fan. The fan assembly is best removed with a very large crescent wrench on the nut just behind the fan viscous coupling. Then hit the wrench in a counter clockwise direction with a small sledgehammer. It may help to spray with penetrating oil. Worst case, wedge something behind the fan drive pulley to keep it from rotating and then use the sledge method. 2. Remove accessory drive belt. 3. Remove both idler pulley (right hand thread, 16 mm) (a), power steering pump (3 bolts that you get to by rotating the pulley, 10 mm) (b), accessory belt tensioner (c), cooling fan pulley and bracket( 4-13 mm bolts) (d), crankshaft pulley/damper (4-10mm bolts, you may need to hold the pulley by the 21 mm center bolt) (e), and alternator (2-13 mm bolts on the front and 1-15 mm on the back side-note you will have to loosen the 2-13 mm bolts for the bracket that holds the alternator to the cylinder head) (f) . 4. Remove the front timing cover (7mm bolt x 17) 5. Remove both plugs in the camshaft cover (one on intake side behind alternator placement, one on exhaust side behind thermostat area). Remove the plugs with a 5mm hex. 6. Rotate the engine clockwise only with a 21mm socket on the front of the crankshaft until the crank timing mark is located at 90 degrees (3:00) and a 6mm hex key engages the hole in the flexplate/flywheel. 7. Inspect the two openings in the camshaft cover to see if the holes in the camshafts align. If so, install the two pins into the respective camshaft. If not, remove the 6mm hex key and rotate the engine 360 degrees at the crankshaft and re-inspect. Note: this may take up to 3 rotations to get all three installed. 8. Loosen the timing belt tensioner and rotate it counterclockwise by hand until slack is sufficient to remove the belt from the pulley. Remove the old timing belt. 9. With a sprocket holding tool, Loosen both camshaft sprokets by rotating the bolt (17mm) counterclockwise. It is sufficient to have them loose; they do not need to be removed. 10. Install new idler pulleys: remove them by turning clockwise to loosen then counter clockwise to tighten. Tighten to 53N-m or 39 Ft Lbs. Loosely install a new belt tensioner. 11. Ensure that the high-pressure fuel pump pulley is oriented Properly (see picture) and fit the new belt to the crankshaft pulley. Install a small vise grip at the crankshaft to hold the belt in place while installing the belt counter clockwise starting with the fuel pump, idler pulley, cam shaft sprockets, idler pulley, water pump and lastly over the newly installed timing belt tensioner. 12. With the new belt properly installed, tension the timing belt with the tensioner as shown in the picture. If the proper handle isn’t available, the tensioner can be moved with two 3mm hex keys. Rotate the tensioner until the proper gap on the pulley is achieved. Tighten the center fixing bolt to 30N-m or 22 Ft Lbs 13. With a sprocket holding tool, tighten both camshaft sprokets to 108N-m or 80 Ft-Lbs. 13. Check tensioner and reset proper tension as needed. 13. Remove the two camshaft pins and crankshaft hex key. Rotate the Clockwise only 21mm socket wrench, 720 degrees, re-check the tensioner and reset proper tension as needed. 14. Reinstall the timing belt cover. 15. As needed install new accessory belt tensioner, idler pulleys and reinstall everything in steps 1 thru 3. Mike...If you want a copy with the pic's let me know?

Author:	thermorex [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Thinking about Renting Tools
In other words I agree that having the crankshaft and camshafts locked is all that matters, a little play of them while locked wont make a difference in the timing of the engine. Different styles and same result I guess. But I think we're about to high jack hexus thread, lol.

Author:	Hoosier CRD [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
I would be very careful, Hexus. Keith at Green Diesel is a very nice guy and is very helpful to work with. When I did my timing belt, I did in fact rent his VM.1085 given that mine had yet to arrive in time. I returned it THE DAY the project was finished. It is my impression that that does not occur often enough. Too, given the aforementioned "wear-and-tear", the difficulty in getting the thing to begin with, etc. I would only allow mine to be borrowed at an arms length.

Author:	flman [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
kjjet wrote: Hexus wrote: The reason the cams sprokets are loosened is to let the belt move them, therefore you have no slack. No need to mark the sprokets, they should move! Like i said, I dont want to be thought of as a smart A... but lots of people think its ok to do the timing belt change without loosing the sprokets...Sorry Its not doing it correctly by the manual. Let the flack start now..... Used a white paint pencil, marked sprockets and belt, transferred marks to new belt and put her back together. My Sport still runs as perfect with the new belt as it did with the old.

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Author:	dieseldoesit [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
flman wrote: Used a white paint pencil, marked sprockets and belt, transferred marks to new belt and put her back together. My Sport still runs as perfect with the new belt as it did with the old. Did you use any of the special tools?

Author:	thermorex [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Thinking about Renting Tools
You can replace the timing belt without any special tools, it's just a little harder but definitely not hard. If you need the water pump replacement though, get the tools since you need to take the sprockets out. @Flman, I thought you have the timing tools...

Author:	kjjet [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
No tools? Where I come from they call that, Junk yard Mechanic.

Author:	Gokeeper [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking about Renting Tools
I do rent Mine out, I ask for a 200 dollar deposit and return 150 when they return. So for 50 you get the tools and shipping to you. I started because at my TB change i didn't have any of the tools and while possible is more difficult. I know the 200 will not cover the loss of the tools I can only hope people are generally honest and will return them and so far that has worked out. I don't advertise and so far everyone wanting the tools has been a forum member. We are a small hand full of DIY jeep mechanics and must stick together. I think if would be very helpful to-get a few more people renting them out since I started I have hardly seen the tools in the last year.