What are symptoms of worn rocker arms?

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:38 pm

TJ2 wrote:

Do oils designed to handle EGR soot from 15 ppm sulfur diesel (ie, API CJ-4). . . handle soot better than API CI-4 Plus with a detergent package designed to deal with EGR soot from 500 ppm sulfur diesel?

Euro diesel is generally about 5 ppm sulfur. Do their standards apply to our fuel. ACEA standards are no different for diesel or gas engines. Or is that not true?

Deleting inflammatory posts is deceptive and cowardly.

Syrtrucker: what is apparent knowledge to you regarding oil and EGR simply means you're a noob and haven't been around for the trial and error that led to .....

People like to talk. . . man do we love to talk.

.

ULSD sold in North America has 15PPM regulations.

Oh I forgot these words of wisdom come from a person who loves to call names like Noob Coward etc and would even send PM with more choice names so that other voices are muzzled or till nobody loves to talk.
Thanks I rest my case.

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:40 pm

Euro oils have separate specs for gas and diesel engines. If the spec starts with an A it's a gas engine spec (A2), or start it with a B for diesels (B4).
A: is gas engines
B: is for light duty diesel
C: I believe is for commercial
E: is for heavy duty diesel

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:21 pm

lostFinn · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:24 am

Here is more info about European oil specs:

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:55 am

Can you guys please stop fighting over oil specs? It's childish and a waste of server space.

TJ2...please cool down a bit. There is no need to start name calling.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:08 pm

you know - we had some consultants come in and teach some team building classes and there were these posters that we put up in every conference room

'Concentrate on the situation, issue or behavior not the person' helped a little (classes and HR enforcement helped more)

and I'll add - I've never seen anyone 'win' an internet argument - normally what happens is that someone gets mad enough and doesn't come back.

That's bad enough on other forums - but you have here a small group of enthusiasts trying to keep limited production vehicles alive and running.
The guy that decides to not come back may be the one that discovers the secret combination that makes everything work,
you never know.

(it is really hard to follow a discussion where parts are deleted....if I remember correctly there were some interesting comments)

geordi · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2013 10:58 am

In my experiences with internet forums (goes back to before the WWW began 20 years ago), the person who deletes their own comments is the one who lost the argument.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2013 12:03 pm

I am interested in an intelligent discussion of the wear issues in these vehicles, and in dispassionate examination of the facts.

I tell y'all what, I will compile a spreadsheet of the variables that may affect rocker and turbo wear together with hard data on status of the CRD in question. Mine would look like this-
Mileage at datum point 90,000
Oil used: unk to 79k, M1 TDT 5w-40 to present.
Repair/ physical inspection datum: Rockers replaced with severe wear, turbo checked and known good.
SEGR? No
GDE Tune? No
MAF unplugged? No
OCI? Unkn to 79k, 6k or less afterwards.
Oil filter? Bosch or Mann
Bypass or supplemental filtration? No.

Any body else want to contribute to a solution?

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2013 3:15 pm

I like this better.
mileage 93451
1st oil change at about 1,500 miles amsoil HHD5w30 Diesel oil.
2nd oil change at 6,500 miles amsoil HHD5w30 Diesel oil.
3rd oil change and last with amsoil HHD5w30 diesel oil at 12,500. (engine consuming to much oil for my liking) OIL was recommended as a fuel effecient choice to 5w40.
4th oil change through 89624 have used Mobil1 0w40euro.( last fall went to purchase and the 0w40 lost the cf rating, BUT found out later the formula did not change)
at 89624 used Delvac1 5w40. (did not like the cold start or fuel economy) :banghead:

oil filters were mostly standard size mobil1 filters. I have used napa platium and pureone on a couple changes.
ORM at 25,000 miles
GDE full torque-eco tune about 35,000 miles
I will be switching back to 0w40 on next change. already stated why in earlier post.
I tow with this all summer. not just a road queen.
I also have checked and have great airflow readings.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2013 9:10 pm

I will tell you one thing from experience now. You can loose a rocker or 3 without loosing the valves and these motors will still run. They will all though take the cam and if on the exhaust side blow the head gasket and eat the turbo. So yes proper oil is important keeping a close eye on anything that looks or sounds funny. I will even start sticking a bore snake down into my valve cover every other oil change.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2013 11:36 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

I tell y'all what, I will compile a spreadsheet of the variables that may affect rocker and turbo wear together with hard data on status of the CRD in question. Mine would look like this-
Mileage at datum point 90,000
Oil used: unk to 79k, M1 TDT 5w-40 to present.
Repair/ physical inspection datum: Rockers replaced with severe wear, turbo checked and known good.
SEGR? No
GDE Tune? No
MAF unplugged? No
OCI? Unkn to 79k, 6k or less afterwards.
Oil filter? Bosch or Mann
Bypass or supplemental filtration? No.
Any body else want to contribute to a solution?

Sure, I'll bite:
Mileage at data (engine detonation / replacement, engine detonation #2) Engine #2 was installed with ~60k miles, approx same as engine #1 at detonation.
Engine #1 - Detonated at 62k miles.
Oil used: unknown to 33k miles, M1 TDT 5w40 or Shell Rotella T6 5w40 after.
Repair info: Turbo failed 62k miles, ambient temp overnight 15F degrees, 32F at departure, NOT plugged in. Failure less than 2 miles from home. Driveway ends at 55mph road. Turbo shaft seized from lack of lubrication / cold oil, engine blew #1 rod bearing and beat cylinder to shrapnel on test drive with new turbo 10 miles later. Probably was already BADLY damaged by oil loss / cold oil.
SEGR: Yes at 33k.
GDE: No
Maf: Stock connected.
OCI: 6k-8k
Oil filter: Always Mobil 1 M1-301
Bypass Filter: No

Engine #2 - installed at and with ~62k, detonated at 134k
Method of detonation: Rod bearing #4 started coming apart while at full throttle, tapping sounded like it may have been top end or bad combustion. While at idle, having never run low on oil or pressure, #4 rod forced through driver's side of block below cylinder wall behind location of EGR valve.
Oil: unknown to 62k miles, M1 TDT 5w40 or Shell Rotella T6 5w40 after.
SEGR: Yes
GDE: Yes, from 62k
MAF: Stock Connected
OCI: 6k-8k until 115k, then 3k with Rislone Oil Treatment until 125k, one more at 130k straight M1 TDT 5w40
Filter: M1-301
Bypass Filter: No

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri May 03, 2013 6:44 am

Mileage at datum point 117,000
Oil used: Mobil 1 0W40 ONLY
Repair/ physical inspection datum: Rockers Seized/worn into top / Turbo Shot / Shattered lifter at #3 intake side
SEGR? No
GDE Tune? Yes at 108,000
MAF unplugged? No
OCI? Always < 6250
Oil filter? FRAM
Bypass or supplemental filtration? No.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri May 03, 2013 7:44 am

I have been closely following this thread and so far at 120K miles I have had:
No symptoms of rocker failure.
No turbo failure.
No engine problems whatsoever.

Oil used: unkn to 30k, M1 TDT 5w-40 or Rotella 5w-40 to present.
MAF unplugged? Yes, from 30K to 60K
SEGR? Yes, from 60K to present
GDE Tune? No
OCI? Unkn to 30k, 8K to 9K to present.
Oil filter? Mobil 1 M301 or Bosch equivalent, or Napa
Bypass or supplemental filtration? No.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Fri May 03, 2013 12:53 pm

137K is when I finally put it down for Repair:
Rocker failuer exhaust side #2 #3 #4
Demolished cam to the point of deep gouges in lobs
Blew head gasket from over pressure in cylinders
Blew exhaust into coolant
Innerward and outward play in Turbo JUNKED

Oil used: unkn to 33k, M1 0w-40 to 80K then Rotella 5w-40 present .
MAF unplugged? no
SEGR? no
GDE Tune? yes 50K to present
OCI? Unkn to 33k, 6k max to present (will be reduced to right at 5250).
Oil filter? Mobil 1 M301 or Bosch equivalent, or Napa, Fram (no More though)
Bypass or supplemental filtration? No.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat May 04, 2013 4:30 am

Audi,

Since, say, 70K miles, has your oil been opaque black immediately after each oil/filter change? If not, roughly how long does it take to get there? After about 20K miles with SEGR (followed by various GDE tunes) it takes at least 1000 miles for us to see any color at all to our oil and 5000 before it turns opaque black. We have used 0W-40 Mobil 1 winter, 5W-40 summer.

DOC

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Sat May 04, 2013 8:39 am

Haven't been able to check my oil easily since cracking my fumoto at 60k and just put the stock plug in it until I bought a replacement. I would also run my oil through a magnetic screen when draining and was finding small metal particles but upon last oil change less then 2k ago and that was well before my head gasket. I should of done something then and not thought that it was just picking up particles off the shop floor.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat May 04, 2013 9:31 am

I meant how the oil looked when you checked it on the dipstick. It took about four oil changes over 20K miles after installing SEGR for oil to clean up (from 35K to 55K miles). I disabled my SEGR (with bypass plug) after finishing my dyno testing on all the different tunes. Have been using GDE tunes since then.

DOC

otrbreakdown · **Joined:** Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:21 am **Posts:** 11

audiboy86 wrote:

I will tell you one thing from experience now. You can loose a rocker or 3 without loosing the valves and these motors will still run. They will all though take the cam and if on the exhaust side blow the head gasket and eat the turbo. So yes proper oil is important keeping a close eye on anything that looks or sounds funny. I will even start sticking a bore snake down into my valve cover every other oil change.

Sow truth . This is exactly what wappened with mine

otrbreakdown · **Joined:** Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:21 am **Posts:** 11

So many opinions and expert advices.
Warmer climate needs the 15W40 colder climate will go better on 0 or 5 W 40.
All internal combustion engines in this world and in the univers they will worn out on cold starts(allways) not at operating temperatures .
Just think a bit. The HYDRAULIC tappeds they adjust and take the play off on oil pressure actuation .
Coming back to cold start = worn out if you have 15 W on cold climate the oil pressure is higher and the push of the rocker against the CAMSHAFT is greater plus the oil will reach harder or later inside the roller of the rocker = premature worn. With the 0 or 5 W the pressure will be lower and the oil more fluid will reach faster to the roller even it will have les pressure and it will not push sow hard on the rocker against the camshaft ore viceversa. There is where the failed rocker arms come .
Also allways will find the Exhaust rockers that fail more often than the intake one because of the Higher temps that they reach during engine operation.
Another fact any engine after shut down will not cool down but it will go up on temperature up to around 15 C for the first 10 to 15 min after shut down.( you can check this fact and let us know your findings) That`s why is recomended when you come from a hard pull or highway speeds to let the engine idle For 1 min or 2 before shut down this will allow the oil to cool down and stick better on the moving parts oposite to shut down rightaway when is hot and super fluid it will leak faster in to the oil pan or in Turbo bearings or bushing is will cook inside the pasages and glu it shut.
In the end all come down to how you do your maintenance and keep up the regular oil changes and filters .
And to be on topic the symptoms are : Black smoke on cold engine or hard accelerations, also it will miss barely ( or more acurate it will idle with some fluctuations on rpm ) , then it will drop power after warm up. And if you want to make sure that you rockers are failing just give it a kick down on Highway speed over 80 Mi/H at 3800 RPM and you will find out for sure.

Fitzdicksn · **Joined:** Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:05 pm **Posts:** 2

ATXKJ wrote:

Srytrucker wrote:

tcoilburner wrote:

I would like to switch back to a good 0W40 for the mileage and the fact the oil will get through the engine on cold starts quicker. :2cents:

That is all good and dandy please let me know if you find any other 0W40 oil besides Mobil1. My point is there are no options.Thanks.

IDparts is selling 'Liqui Moly' 0-40 It's a German brand
(although I'm not sure if it's a Group III (Hydrocracked) or Group IV PAO
- Bob the oil guy has some comments they use the cheaper stuff for the US market)

PENNZOIL makes both a EURO L 0-40 and a 5-30 full synthetic oil. Great oil. Used it in a 2008 3.0L CRD Mercedes powered Jeep Grand Cherokee for years and now in my 2006 Liberty CRD.

What are symptoms of worn rocker arms?

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