.

The B4 spec may be higher and it is a surprise that this oil is the only from Mobil stable to pass or meet that now the question is what it does to VM rockers is it too thin to run off them at start and not clinging, so choice between devil and deep sea secondly VM in Euro uses 10W40 Syn spec oil since there is not much diff between 0W40 and 5W40 at start up and 5W40 to 10W40 it would be safe (for me) to go with 5W40 TDT or Delo LE both have high content on Zinc as per UOA reports.
I did a good UOA T6 for a short duration so i would keep myself on a shorter OCI of about 4000 miles or so till i find the real deal.
Heck just need to find a good source to import oil from across the pond as we need it only once or twice a year ( eBay UK here i come) and we are importing the parts to fix these mistresses anyways.
Oh well .......it is a beautiful day and open road is calling......

I use Mobil 1 most of this Jeeps life. If you do not want to use a 0w40 oil, Penzoil makes the Ultra euro 5w40 to meet the MS10725 spec.

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long live the diesel
Greendieselengineering
Full torque Eco-tune
0w40 oil
Mostly stock
Diesel's are towing machines

This appears to be one of the few options that meets all the criteria besides M1 0w40.

.

I believe Keith at GDE has more experience with the CRD than anybody on this continent. His knowledge comes from research and HANDS ON EXPERIENCE.

Quote from Keith's original thread about rocker wear:

15W-40 and 10W-40 are the most common engine oils used in the VM engine outside of North America. VM states the oil must have a CG rating or later, so just about anything will work. I would base the oil change interval on the quality of oil you use and maybe a few samples sent in for oil analysis. 15W-40 is specified for ambient temps from -10 to 40 C.

The official VM "green book" does not even list the 0w-40 in the 2005 and 2006 model years. This was an internal push by Chrysler to gain 1mpg in the emission test cycle and have better starting in Canada.

So, ya pay yer money and take yer chances. I'm going with a CI-4 Plus (also CG and CF) in a 10/40. I'm not driving a Benz.

Seriously, no offense intended with this post. But reading specs and stats in no way stacks up to hands on experience.

Fire away!!!!

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'05 Sport CRD 107k miles. NOBODY knows everything.

But Keith has also said that he would like to see more proof that the oil spec is the problem. He is going on the side of caution with his recommendations.

_________________
long live the diesel
Greendieselengineering
Full torque Eco-tune
0w40 oil
Mostly stock
Diesel's are towing machines

So we come full circle and TJ2 has the answers.

End of discussion, use what oil you want

Wow. . . I guess I just don't know you well enough to trust 'your gut feeling.'

I'll go along with Keith.

PS I just had an idea. When you finish educating everyone here, why don't you jump over to bitog.com???

Some of those guys say MI stopped using straight Group IV base stocks after they lost the lawsuit to Castrol. I'm sure they'd want to be emancipated from their ignorance.

MY Amsoil is straight up PAO. . . although not all Amsoil is.

I can almost admire the way you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

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'05 Sport CRD 107k miles. NOBODY knows everything.

You are correct that not all Mobil 1 oils are a pao. If you find the Mobil 1 super synthetic oil that is a group III oil and will be cheaper.

I believe there are a lot of owners like myself that have mostly run Mobil1 0w40 and are having no problems. I personally do not like the way my Jeep starts below 30 degrees with a 5w40 oil. I have check that I have no air flow problem.

It may come down to soot, because of the oil filter choice and length between oil changes.

_________________
long live the diesel
Greendieselengineering
Full torque Eco-tune
0w40 oil
Mostly stock
Diesel's are towing machines

EGR soot is rediculous. Plain and simple.

You should see the cleanout I did of my Intake and EGR elbow/valve/assembly.

Now that all that crap is out, I did a 1500 mile oil change after my top-end rebuild and my oil was dark brown, not black after 1500 miles.

I stand convinced it was the EGR/Soot/Acidity that led to my rocker arm failure, there is little you could say to convince me otherwise.

I will not, however, use a 0W40 oil ever again (personal preference) as no one but Chrysler (Who have proven what idiots they are) recommends it for this engine.

If the Engine manufacturer doesn't recommend it, why would you keep using it?

The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

_________________
Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings

LONG LIVE THE OIL DEBATE!!

It comes down to this: Until a side by side study is performed with proven oil changes and types we will never know. I believe there is benefits to using 0w-40 and 5w-40. But in my case the 0w-40 has more benefit due to i live in PA and i do allot of short trip driving. If i lived in FL i think 5w-40 would have more benefit. Yes...I said it.

With all the oil testing done, the results showed no breakdowns in any of the oils even at 7k miles. So...Its not the oil. Its the EGR soot. In most other country's the % of EGR soot is lower. They have different oil and fuel, so we here in the US can not compare our engine's to theirs.

Pick the oil that you feel is best for your you and live with it.

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

Maybe, but you may also have other sources of "air" getting to your intake after the MAF such as EGR or a torn intake hose.

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Share your ideas freely at https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

Mobil Super Synthetic is not in the Mobil 1 family. And is a group III+ like T6, etc. Some call them semi-synthetics. Cannot be sold as a "full synthetic" in most countries. (But the US is slack in that regard due to one Judge's ruling in the Mobil/Castroil case).

Big religious debate as to whether M1 has compromised it's PAO base. It's clearly not 100% PAO (group IV), but also includes esthers (Group V). But that does not mean it's a group III "sort of" synthetic, they could not sell it outside the US as a synthetic if they had done so. And some of the non-PAO is what contributes to it's performance. Huge debates on these areas that approach silliness.


As to cold starts, that's where the 0W, 5W, etc help. And the main time there is a difference. All the xW40's have similar viscosity at operating temperature, by definition.

Anyone measured average oil temp in a CRD? Like most diesels, it would normally be above 100c (212f) at operating temp in the engine, assuming a typical 180f water thermostat. Unless overcooled (unlikely), diesel oil temps tend to run 10-20 degrees (f) over their water temps. And that's typically as measured in the pan or where the cooler line exits the engine. It's hotter in the engine itself.

Which is why the x40 in the oil is what matters for all except the warm up period. And during start/warmup is when you *want* thinner oil.

I will explore those a little more, but I doubt it's my intake hose, I replaced that about 9 months ago as it was getting a little "spongy" and I didn't want to worry about it.
I will add that the last couple of days my MAF values have been running closer to 17 when engine is warmed up, and we've been a little warmer, actually close to freezing, but I have no idea if that has any significance.
My other question is, assuming my rockers might be worn, how urgent an issue is this? Do I need to start seriously planning a weekend to enlist my mechanic buddy and tear into this thing and replace them, or can I wait until I have another project down the road a ways? For instance I have 130K on this and didn't do the water pump with the first TB job and was planning to do the next TB/WP job at more like 160 or 170K? I just don't feel like I have enough knowledge or perspective to probably understand what all these engine values I'm now obtaining mean or be able to make good decisions based on them. I realize a definitive answer to my questions is probably hard.

_________________
2005 CRD Sport
Samco hoses, GDE Ecotune, Fumoto drain valve
Winter mods: air box snorkel removed, front grill covered, viscous fan and clutch removed

Can we all keep it civil here and agree to disagree sharing ideas is the basic block of a good forum.
Now back to the issue at hand soot is the enemy here and I can't wait to hear the deadline when they will dismantle aircare program here cause that is the day EGR is going to magically drop out of my jeep.( by the way I passed my inspection and M good to go for 2 years with a provent system hanging in all its glory in the engine comp.)
I have seen the difference in cold starts between different 5w40 first hand so I can relate to that and over the years what I had heard was that the upper number matters in multigrade oils and only when I moved to cold north that lower numbers came into play.
Now the baffling part is UOA haven't seen any bad ones with Mobil or T6 and one guy had a filter action setup and stellar numbers with 5w30.
Soot numbers show up within averages and most reports at even 7000-10000 mile mark report good TBN and egg us on, it is different that nobody is willing to play Russian roullete anymore and change oil anyway.
Now if you tear up the same engine the amount of caked up soot baffles my noggin at that point I need to find the culprit and deal with it ......hunt continues......

Wow, I'm a bit surprised at the venom from some on the whole oil topic. Just received this via PM:


It was in reply to my comment in this thread:


This just underscores to me that most of the oil debates are silly, especially if they devolve to personal attacks.

Not sure which of my statements are outrageous. If I'm wrong, then help me understand what I missed.

I'm assuming it's that 0W40 has the same viscosity as 5w40 or 10w40 at operating temperature. It's a very common misconception. But a straight 40, 15w40, 10w40, 5w40, or 0w40 all have to fall in the straight 40 weight viscosity range at 100c to have that rating. It's not me, it's the SAE that defined that!

Or maybe that most diesel oil temps average 10-20 degrees above the thermostat temp, and higher in the engine? (plus or minus depending on oil cooling, whether the cooler tap has a thermostat, etc)

That Mobil Super Synthetic is not in the Mobil 1 family and is a Group III oil?

That most countries do not allow the Group III based oils to be sold as full synthetics?

Tell me what I missed, don't call me names.

Pinzgauer,
Based on what you have said and your breakdown of the oils in question....are you saying that the Mobil 1 0w-40 European Formula with the MB 229.50 approval will deal with the soot in these engines better than the Mobil 1 5w-40 Turbo Diesel Truck formulation? I used to run the Mobil 1 0w-40 but switched to the Mobil 1 5w-40 TDT formulation not because of the viscosity but because I felt the CJ-4/CI-Plus rating would deal with the soot better than the 0w-40 formulation. If that isn't true....I'd consider going back to the 0w-40. Also....I run pretty short oil change intervals just to be on the safe side (partly because I do tow a 4-5,000 pound concession trailer with my Jeep). I have been running 4,000 mile change intervals.

Jim

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Stock 06 CRD Limited
Timing belt replaced at 110,000 miles

Before this discussion headed down the loo it was discussed that there are newer standards out there in Euro zone that have improved over CJ & CI 4 + namely B 4 and Mb229 and the Mobil 1 0W40 syn actually meets them so better soot handling.

Do oils designed to handle EGR soot from 15 ppm sulfur diesel (ie, API CJ-4). . . handle soot better than API CI-4 Plus with a detergent package designed to deal with EGR soot from 500 ppm sulfur diesel?

Euro diesel is generally about 5 ppm sulfur. Do their standards apply to our fuel. ACEA standards are no different for diesel or gas engines. Or is that not true?

Deleting inflammatory posts is deceptive and cowardly.

_________________
'05 Sport CRD 107k miles. NOBODY knows everything.