sent from my sgh-1717 running CM10
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| Torque Pro Extended PID help http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74532 |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Torque Pro Extended PID help |
The Torque Pro app seems to work great on our 2005 KJ CRD. However, I have been posting for over a year on the Torque Pro Forum, offering generous $$$ (hundreds) for help to add trans temp, oil temp and oil pressure to the values Torque can display, but no takers. My version shows that trans temp should display, but does not. Also, boost pressure does not display correctly, (It reads negatively.) I posted this: 1. Turbo Boost produces a value, but reads negatively: Want to correct. Factory Service Manual: CAV: 4 Circuit: K37 20BR/OR 2. Trans Temp listed in PIDs, but does not produce a value on display. (There is a separate TCM.) CAV:54 Circuit: T54 20DG/OR 3. There is an oil pressure sensor, but I cannot find circuit info in the FSM for oil pressure (though, they do have it for the 3.7 gas motor: CAV: 1 Circuit: G620VT/GY) 4. No engine oil temp sensor is listed in FSM. However, how can one determine if the ECM monitors engine oil temp? Would really appreciate assistance with this. Anybody here with some software familiarity interested in taking this on? An ELM327 and a Torque Pro app are less than $30, total. Thanks! DOC |
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| Author: | 4x4kingx889 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
You'll never get those other readings because our jeep doesn't have those sensors it's not a software issue it only reads what the ecm does... sent from my sgh-1717 running CM10 |
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| Author: | WolverineFW [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
DOC4444 wrote: The Torque Pro app seems to work great on our 2005 KJ CRD. However, I have been posting for over a year on the Torque Pro Forum, offering generous $$$ (hundreds) for help to add trans temp, oil temp and oil pressure to the values Torque can display, but no takers. My version shows that trans temp should display, but does not. Also, boost pressure does not display correctly, (It reads negatively.) I posted this: 1. Turbo Boost produces a value, but reads negatively: Want to correct. Factory Service Manual: CAV: 4 Circuit: K37 20BR/OR 2. Trans Temp listed in PIDs, but does not produce a value on display. (There is a separate TCM.) CAV:54 Circuit: T54 20DG/OR 3. There is an oil pressure sensor, but I cannot find circuit info in the FSM for oil pressure (though, they do have it for the 3.7 gas motor: CAV: 1 Circuit: G620VT/GY) 4. No engine oil temp sensor is listed in FSM. However, how can one determine if the ECM monitors engine oil temp? Would really appreciate assistance with this. Anybody here with some software familiarity interested in taking this on? An ELM327 and a Torque Pro app are less than $30, total. Thanks! DOC My boost displays in positive numbers. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
I could be wrong, but when I connected a high end version of VAGCOM a couple years ago, I could swear that it read trans temp, oil temp and I believe, oil pressure. Also, it read boost in positive numbers. Unfortunately, it only ran for 3-4 minutes at a time before it shut off. I know there are a few people here who have VAGCOM for their VWs. Can anyone confirm what parameters are actually monitored by the ECU? Thanks, DOC |
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| Author: | 4x4kingx889 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
My boost also reads in + numbers...and if you click on vehicle information in the app it tell's you what your ECU read's we only have a dummy oil pressure sensor and by the time that come's on your engine is most likely gone..why not just buy a piller mount so you can have the gauge's you want? |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Already have a pillar mount (boost and EGT). I am trying to find someone who has some techno savvy that I do not and is interested in developing the full potential utility of Torque Pro for the KJ CRD. It is extremely economical to purchase and seems to be the ONLY device that can be connected on an ongoing basis that does NOT abruptly shut the vehicle down (ScanGaugeII, etc.). (There have been threads on this for years that you may not be familiar with.) DOC |
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| Author: | 4x4kingx889 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Ok I understand what your saying but the app can't read what's not there..I will post a picture when I go out to my jeep |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
If you worry about your trans temps it's time to upgrade your cooling 1st. |
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| Author: | CATCRD [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
tjkj2002 wrote: If you worry about your trans temps it's time to upgrade your cooling 1st. Data comes first. Then mods if needed. There is a trans temp sensor in the valve body and a trans temp light on the dash, so the data must be available to the ECM. MrMopar has stated that there is also oil pressure data from the sensor, it's not just a switch. I've also been unable to find it in torque. To correct your boost reading you need to go into your vehicle profile in torque and play with the boost offset to get it to show O at idle. I don't think oil temp is available at all. |
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Correct, oil pressure is present (it's a real sensor, not a switch nor a modeled value). No oil temp sensor. Other things should work, trans time as a generic OBDII pid not sure since that would be broadcast by TCM. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Mr. Mopar, Thanks so much for weighing in. Could you suggest where to obtain the PID values for the KJ CRD so we can monitor all the parameters possible with Torque Pro? There are a lot of people here using it who would really appreciate it. Thanks again, DOC |
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| Author: | 4x4kingx889 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
sent from my sgh-1717 running CM10 |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Any idea where to obtain PIDs ? THANKS! DOC |
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| Author: | UtopiaCRD [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
I just got my ELM327/Torque unit yesterday, so I'm still getting it working. My boost pressure works (well, it's positive, out of the box with no fiddling with offsets). My problem is with the instant MPG reading, which reads much higher than actual (twice as high, probably), but I posted a separate topic for that. I'll be happy to look into what it takes to make the software modifications, if that is what is needed. I'm not familiar with OBDII or how it works, though, so just having programming skills may not be enough. I'll see what is on the Torque forums. |
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| Author: | tZac [ Sat May 11, 2013 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Today I try Torque Pro but my app only read RPM and nothing else. What am I doing wrong ? How to set up Torque for CRD Liberty year 2006 ? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Sat May 11, 2013 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Doc - I'm not up on this stuff well enough to know what you are looking for in item #3 but have you checked the 06 FSM wiring diagrams and diagnostics? They show the diesel oil pressure sensor feeding a signal to the BCM. Based on MrMopar64 saying, as he has in the past, that this is a real sensor I would assume it feeds a "value" to the BCM and based on that value the computer system, don't ask me how or where, decides to turn on the low oil pressure warning light or not. While it would be good to have a readout on that value I'm not fond of the sensor's location at the bottom of the system where loss of oil pressure won't likely be sensed until it's too late or nearly so. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sat May 11, 2013 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
True, but with Torque Pro on an Android, you can set audible alerts at a specific value. I would argue that a low oil pressure alert MIGHT be better than nothing in terms of increasing the chance you turn the key off a little sooner than you might otherwise DOC |
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| Author: | arengant [ Sun May 26, 2013 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
So I will summarize my findings on the extended PIDs here: A PID is a parameter id, or basically electronic data coded for the computer. See wiki/OBD-II_PIDs First, if your vehicle supports PIDs (in this case the CRD) the TorqueScan will find "them." By "them" I mean it will display the location in hexadecimal code of the sensor and the value of the sensor. The app will NOT tell you what sensor it is reading, or what the values are. To determine what PID is for what sensor, I think GDE has some or those answers or the software from AutoEnginuity should tell you. The next step is to determine a formula using the values given by the ECU to determine the proper "gauge value." A lot of those formulas are semi standard across manufactures, but there can be some variation. For Temperature it shouldn't be hard, start with ambient temp, and after driving it for a while you (maybe using a thermal scanner) you will know what the value from the ECU should equate to. The problem I am running into is accession that part of the Torque App. My ECU does not return anything, at all. I can't even type in a KNOW PID value into the custom PID menu and have it work. Because there are some aftermarket products that appear to read extended PIDs, I am pretty sure the info is there. Maybe it is just my cheap adapter. The adapter did not connect to my Grand Caravan the one day I tried it (possible I had it set incorrectly) I would love to work on getting more info in Torque from our computers, but I have to overcome this hurdle first. If anyone else has had success with their Torque App using Torque Scan let me know and it might be worth me buying the top of the line adapter. |
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| Author: | Auberon [ Wed May 29, 2013 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Indeed arengant. I use the phone with ELM 327 for off the cuff / on the road readings and then rely on AutoEnginuity (AE) in my workshop with the full Chrysler Extension to delve more deeply into the other systems etc should I need to. The phone is just more portable and less easily stolen than a laptop with truckloads of data on it. If I need to do a detailed data log then replay when I can study for reproducing conditions (if I deem the vehicle driveable) I call on the AE and it does it admirably. I am a big supporter of the full Autoenginuity system. It does what it is intended for very well. The OBD algorithms are, as you say pretty standard - they have to by law accessible.....up to a point and the manufacturers exercise guarding that point to protect themselves in order to monopolise servicing. It is the extension areas that have cost organisations like AutoEnginuity the $'s and hence, that is why you pay for the service + the fact they there are so many out there trying to steal the hard yards they've put in and just copy without the time and expertise that go into development of manufacturer specific code - hence, the need for security dongles end the like. |
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| Author: | arengant [ Wed May 29, 2013 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torque Pro Extended PID help |
Auberon wrote: Indeed arengant. I use the phone with ELM 327 for off the cuff / on the road readings and then rely on AutoEnginuity (AE) in my workshop with the full Chrysler Extension to delve more deeply into the other systems etc should I need to. The phone is just more portable and less easily stolen than a laptop with truckloads of data on it. If I need to do a detailed data log then replay when I can study for reproducing conditions (if I deem the vehicle driveable) I call on the AE and it does it admirably. I am a big supporter of the full Autoenginuity system. It does what it is intended for very well. The OBD algorithms are, as you say pretty standard - they have to by law accessible.....up to a point and the manufacturers exercise guarding that point to protect themselves in order to monopolise servicing. It is the extension areas that have cost organisations like AutoEnginuity the $'s and hence, that is why you pay for the service + the fact they there are so many out there trying to steal the hard yards they've put in and just copy without the time and expertise that go into development of manufacturer specific code - hence, the need for security dongles end the like. You have AE?? Perfect! I have been talking with them, and they said we can get the PIDs for different gauges from the software as long as the Chrysler expansion is purchased too. I have no idea WHERE in the software it would display the ID, but if you see something we should talk! The biggest concern that I see us facing would be overloading the data bus with information causing something to crash, possibly the Transmission shifting out of overdrive. This happens with some scanning tools that people have reported about on here. I am hoping that if only a few gauges are requested through the torque software that we will be able to display what we want without hampering the communication of the ECU to the rest of the vehicle. This will allow continued use while on the road. |
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