Possibly NO Liberty CRD for 2007. Comments Anyone?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:51 am

One thing about resale value, it's meaningless until you are ready to sell/trade it. Hopefully you won't wreck it or get so fed up that you decide to torch it. For now, I would enjoy it. I intended to trade my aging Chevy 1500 w/t but found it to be basicly worthless on trade so it shares the driveway with my CRD. I take time to enjoy both. By the time you are ready to part with your CRD I'm sure some other market factor will kill your resale value, like something cheap and Chineese.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:19 pm

RFCRD wrote:

One thing about resale value, it's meaningless until you are ready to sell/trade it. Hopefully you won't wreck it or get so fed up that you decide to torch it. For now, I would enjoy it. I intended to trade my aging Chevy 1500 w/t but found it to be basicly worthless on trade so it shares the driveway with my CRD. I take time to enjoy both. By the time you are ready to part with your CRD I'm sure some other market factor will kill your resale value, like something cheap and Chineese.

That may not be too far away. I've actually gotten several spam e-mails over the past year or two, advertising Chinese built diesel pickups for less than the price of a Dodge Neon. Last week on CNN, they reported that one Chinese manufacturer, as soon as they could meet U.S. safety standards, was about 3 years away from marketing their vehicles here. They also reported that these vehicles would have a significant cost advantage over all other foreign and domestic makes as the labor cost per vehicle amounted to FOUR DOLLARS PER DAY! Amazing what you can produce when you throw copyright laws to the wind and use what is essentially slave labor.

toos · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:59 pm

I stopped by Farrish jeep in Fairfax Virginia on Saturday. I had to go into town and I figured I'd have the wife test drive a Liberty CRD just for the heck of it. I also spoke briefly with one of the service guys about the CRD. My wife liked the CRD, although she said the sound reminded her of driving in Europe (where she is from) and that she felt as though she should be shifting. I guess diesel and manual transmission go together for her.

The service guy said he has seen a few CRD's in with EGR problems and that there is a TSB out on it. He said not all the CRD's they have sold have had the problem though. I asked about timing belt replacement labor costs. He said he thought labor charges would range between $300 and $500, with the labor cost probably being closer to the lower number. The timing belt itself costs $180. He offered to get an exact replacment cost if I called back. He said if you look on the Internet for info on any car, you'd probably be concerned since they all have their issues and teething problems. True I guess.

I mentioned the rumor about the cessation of the Liberty CRD in 2007 to sales, and the sales people said they had not heard anything about that, but they told me they sometimes are the last to know when it comes to what is going to be coming out the next model year. All in all it was a nice visit and the folks at Farrish were helpful.

Anyway, I guess I'll wait and see if they have anything about the JGC diesel near year end. By then maybe I can still get a Liberty CRD if I want. As someone in another forum commented, a diesel version of the Commander looks like it would be a sales leader. I said the same thing to my wife as we were looking at one in the showroom. If they had a Commander in diesel they would probably fly out the door. I'd prefer a JGC or Liberty myself though.

On an unrelated note, while trying to get my wife's Toyota fixed, I sat in the new replacement for the Toyota Echo, figuring it might make a good commuter car. Looks nice, but you'd have to be a 5 foot tall to fit in the thing. I think they call it a Yarish or something like that. Strange name, must have something to do with Hobbitts. So scratch that option. And I thought the Liberty was a bit cramped compared to my JGC. As I get older it seems the cars I drive are shrinking faster than I am in my "old age", haha.....

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

They also reported that these vehicles would have a significant cost advantage over all other foreign and domestic makes as the labor cost per vehicle amounted to FOUR DOLLARS PER DAY! Amazing what you can produce when you throw copyright laws to the wind and use what is essentially slave labor.

Exactly. While GM, DCX, VW, Honda and Toyota have stumbled over each other in their rush to establish manufacturing presence in China, all have turned a momentary blind eye to the theft of IP in China. So while they enjoy forced labor or very low wages, little to no safety regulations and basic environmental controls to add to their costs, in the end, somehow, someway, their IP, say in the form of diesel NoX and particulate traps, end up on competing vehicles costing one fourth as much. Not too expensive to copy someone elses designs and build it yourself.

Clothing designers experienced this in the 80s's. GM has already sued on Chinese auto make for basicall taking an entire GM vehicle, changing an emblem or other cosmetic ornament, and then selling it as their own in-house design. Theft of IP has been occurring in China and other countries for well over 50 years. In the end, there is a price for everything.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

If they had a Commander in diesel they would probably fly out the door

Not so sure of that myself. The Commander is built on the same basic platform as the 05 Grand Cherokee. The Grand Cherokee quality ratings have not been good in the year or so its been in production. Add to that the Commanders unusal styling, and you have a less than appealing vehicle. It would have to be the last diesel vehicle on earth before I would think twice about it. If they put the MB V6 diesel in it, its likely to be the premium, or Overland version that gets it, a possibly higher cost than the Hemi V8. This may put it near the high end of $45,000 for a Jeep, maybe even more for the development of BlueTec technology, which has not been amortized over very many vehicles yet.

When the CRD Liberty came out, Deiter announced that the 2.8 CRD diesel engine cost DCX approximately $1000.00 more than the V6, but that they were going to subsidize the cost - at that point they were not sure diesel would even sell in their product line. That was one of the reasons they limited production. They had commissioned a poll about interest in a diesel CRD and the response came back lukewarm in 2002. That was then. Now they know diesel power will sell.

I can't see MB subsidizing their own pride and joy, their new V6 diesel engine. Not when it will be sold in 2 versions of the ML suv, as well as the E320 and possibly the 300C sedan, all at premium pricing.

the big dog · **Joined:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 39

THE COMMANDER NEEDS THE CUMMINS,not the underpower benz engine

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The Cummins 5.9 engine weighs ~1200 lbs empty. The RAM 1500 chassis can't even handle it. The Commander frame would be crushed under the weight.

the big dog · **Joined:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 39

well then make it a real truck,they can make it work :roll:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

DCX needs a V8 4 liter range diesel engine, something similar to the Audi diesel. Could be used in a wide range of vehicles, like the Ram 1500, Grand Cherokee, Durango, Dakota and even a high end version of the 300C and Charger.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:28 pm

Will let you all in on a little secret. I first saw this MV Motori engine in 1999. My previous employer held their sales meeting at Detroit Diesel headquarters in Michigan. Got to go in a really cool tour of their remanufacturing and R&D facilities. That day, they had this motor running in the lab on a bench dyno working on injection control software. It was crude, you could definately tell it was a test mule but it did have the new Bosch Common Rail system jimmy-rigged on it. It really stuck out and I asked the engineer/tour guide "what is that"?? He was very open about it being their new Jeep/Caravan engine being developed for Europe and S. America. He took @ 30 minutes with our group running it through it's test cycle. I was impressed (put it on my gotta get me one of these list) but told it would not be made available in N. America. This I-4 was built to very specific exterior size to fit in the Jeep and Caravan. It's height limited and maxed out on block height/stroke.

Anyways, there was also an I-6 version on a stand in the corner of the lab and was told that they also had a tall-block stroker version of the I-6 that they wanted to run up against the Cummins 5.9. The engineer commented that breaking Dodge customers away from the Cummins 5.9 would be all but impossible.

That was over 6 years ago, this is old tech now and I bet quite crude compared to the MB V-6. It's still a solid and inexpensive diesel. Where else can you get a diesel 4X4 even close this price point?

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:30 am

Wow I am amazed at how little most people know about diesels frrom Europe.

4.0L V8 MB found in the S class and the ML, lots of power and fun as hell to drive. My ML I had for 2 weeks got 23.4 MPG at 112mph on the autobahn.

CRD is avalible in 300C WAGON and sedan, Grand Caravan, PT Cruiser, Cherokee(KJ) and Grand Cherokee.

I have over 3000 miles on my KJ so far and I cruise at 95-100 mph, I have not had an issue yet with it. I drive the piss out of it. I enjoy the most the ESC when it kicks in and out going around curves and the tires howling. Full power ABS shuttering stops from 100mph could not even get the tranny to shudder.

When the US has to start paying $5-$8 a galon then the magic of diesel will shine through. The other day I filled up the Liberty and it cost $90 to fill the tank. The people that are getting diesels now are starting to wake up and realize what's coming.

The only issue I have is with the driveline vibration at 100mph. I need to take it in and have it checked.

longarm · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:30 am

..........

the big dog · **Joined:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 39

put the perdator chip on and then run that taurus.

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:58 am

More of the rumor mill from the "other" forum. Good entertainment to read.

Quote:

#5057 of 5057 Re: NO LIBERTY CRD FOR 2007 [toos] by winter2 Apr 10, 2006 (5:56 am)
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Replying to: toos (Apr 09, 2006 9:40 am)

I spoke with someone at Fitzgerald Automall in Gaithersburg, MD last Friday. He spoke with someone at DC and here is what they told him.

"There will be no Jeep Liberty CRD for 2007, but it will return in 2008 with a totally different engine". More than likely, it will be a BlueTec MB diesel. The 2.8L we have will continue in Europe. Apparently, they could not get the V.M Motori engine EPA certified for MY 2007 and beyond. The other possibility was that it would be too expensive to certify a new engine.

The only real problem I'm having with my CRD is trying to maximize the basic 3/36 warranty - I just want to drive all the time!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:25 am

alljeep wrote:

More of the rumor mill from the "other" forum. Good entertainment to read.

Quote:

#5057 of 5057 Re: NO LIBERTY CRD FOR 2007 [toos] by winter2 Apr 10, 2006 (5:56 am)
Reply | E-mail Msg
Replying to: toos (Apr 09, 2006 9:40 am)

I spoke with someone at Fitzgerald Automall in Gaithersburg, MD last Friday. He spoke with someone at DC and here is what they told him.

"There will be no Jeep Liberty CRD for 2007, but it will return in 2008 with a totally different engine". More than likely, it will be a BlueTec MB diesel. The 2.8L we have will continue in Europe. Apparently, they could not get the V.M Motori engine EPA certified for MY 2007 and beyond. The other possibility was that it would be too expensive to certify a new engine.

The only real problem I'm having with my CRD is trying to maximize the basic 3/36 warranty - I just want to drive all the time!

You're right, that "other" forum has turned out to be good only for it's entertainment value. I tried making a few posts there and start an intelligent discussion, but after reading some of the replies realized it was a waste of time. Tried passing on some of the tips we've discussed here, such as BSFC and the most efficient RPM for the engine, and trying OD OFF when driving less than 50 mph and in town. Got told basically I was full of it and even harangued as being someone who deliberately drives 10 mph below the speed limit holding up traffic, the "how dare you tell ME how to drive!" attitude. I posted the reply I got from Freightliner's CEO there, may as well have been talking to a brick wall.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:19 pm

I had the same experience and no longer go there. They had a lot of problems last year with gassers coming on threads and giving the diesel folks a hard time, so I just pulled my plug.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

You're right, that "other" forum has turned out to be good only for it's entertainment value

And some mighty fine entertainment it can be. They have somewhat convinced themselvs now, having informed the whole forum about the lack of an 07 CRD Liberty, that their CRD's have an electric water pump on them, in addition to the ordinary pump. Their proof - a picture of the viscous heater.

I think forums should have a credibility factor rating that would appear, and compute how many erroneous posts are committed. Along with a user settable filter that could filter all posts with a less than decent credibility rating. Would save reading a lot of nonsense.

longarm · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:03 am

..........

the big dog · **Joined:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 39

kinda like the difference betweena v6 and a v8 gas, it is very comparible to the difference in 4.7 v-8 and the hemi. 60 more hp, over 100 lbs of torque. none traceable 2 min on an off, at least 2 miles per gallon on highway, retail around 600 but if you can find a distributor probably can get it for 500. WARNING:one item if you are having the shudder or glowplug problem it will enhance it GREATLY.

pipefactory · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:24 am

longarm wrote:

the big dog wrote:

put the perdator chip on and then run that taurus.

Would it make that much of a difference? What gains did you notice as far as HP and milage? How much did it cost you?

When I have my Predator switched on I can smoke the tire. When floor it halfway across the intersection and the turbo spools up it's like your in a slingshot. As far as MPG I'll find out today, I'm taking a 180 mile trip with the Predator switched on. I did this trip last week with the Predator off and got 21.8 this is with a 3" lift and 245/75-16 Revos and -10 winter blend.

Possibly NO Liberty CRD for 2007. Comments Anyone?

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