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NYS Emission testing
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75128		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  irollgen4s [ Thu May 02, 2013 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  NYS Emission testing
So it seems that emperor Cuomo decided reenact emissions testing, even on diesels. My cousin went to bring his(my old) CRD to a pepboys for an inspection, he passed the normal safety inspection, but when hooked up to the NYS OBD2 emissions testing machine, it said it cannot communicate with the car.. therefore failing it. They said this is because the TCM needs to be reflashed so it doesn't interfere(sounds like a crock of horseshit to me) with the process. He gave a call to the dealer and they said there is a TCM flash available that should fix the issue.

My questions is, will the TCM flash fix this? Is my GDE HOT tune interfering, or will it be erased when the flash the car?
Author:  Hexus [ Thu May 02, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Your GDE Hot Tune is in your ECU.

Your TCM is your Transmission Control Module, which is the other computer.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Thu May 02, 2013 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Yeah i'm aware of that, i'm just not sure if they're going to reflash the entire car to try and fix this seemingly stupid problem. I've never heard of anyone having it, but i don't know what other states require OBD2 testing. NY didn't require it on any diesels until this year.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Thu May 02, 2013 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
send me an email @ support@greendieselengineering.com

I can check your code level.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Fri May 03, 2013 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Update from the stealership: they refuse to update the TCM(recall says TCM software is causing the communication issue) under recall, they want 200/hour for it which is outrageous. They're having a supervisor call my cousin(the owner) on monday, but i'm assuming they're either gonna flake or refuse because Jeep is run by idiots. I'm at a loss of what to do right now, the car is out of inspection and is just a giant paper weight right now. Gotta love emperor cuomo.
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri May 03, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
I'm doing this from memory so may not be totally accurate. I don't have documentation handy but early on there was a issue with aftermarket scan tools (the NY tools would likely fit this class) being able to read the KJ OBD2 system due to internal conflicts between the ECU/TCM/BCM and there was a fix released. I thought that was a Federally mandated fix (some one like GDE or Sir Sam may have better information) as under federal law DCJ is not allowed to have their systems set so after market scan tools won't work. If that's the case the dealership would be mandated to implement the fix at no charge.

Other wise the typical dealer charge for a reflash is a flat $100 as it pretty much is just hookup and run the system update. The only critical part, as I recall, is making sure the electrical system stays "up" for the duration of the upload lest the system being uploaded get damaged. Judging by the time it takes to upload a GDE tune to the ECU on an 05, which is slow compared to an 06, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so.

Keep in mind all they are doing is checking via the OBD2 for stored codes so:
1. make sure the CEL is working - it should illuminate for a second or so when the ignition is switched on. If it does not then the bulb is dead or disabled or taped over. Dealers will try to sell you a replacement instrument cluster to fix a dead or disabled bulb but I have a link to the how to fix this with a bit of solder work and a $2 or so LED.
2. there are some situations where the OBD2 can have readiness to read issues, if this was the case you should have been told so, in which case it takes like 2-5 full drive cycles (dead cold to operating temp and back) to clear residual issues and make the OBD2 "ready"

Hope this helps and that my memory is not too far off.
Jim
Author:  graycenphil [ Fri May 03, 2013 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
How many miles are on the vehicle? I think the emissions system is guaranteed for at least 100K, and this sure sounds like an emission problem.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri May 03, 2013 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
graycenphil wrote:
How many miles are on the vehicle? I think the emissions system is guaranteed for at least 100K, and this sure sounds like an emission problem.

2 years,24,000 miles is all from the date of manufacture.
Author:  geordi [ Sat May 04, 2013 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Federally-mandated emissions equipment is supposed to be warrantied for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

I had that number listed under the warranty section of the VIP reports I got for my CRD. Good luck getting Mopar to honor that however - The bankruptcy judge gave them a free pass to walk away from ANY liability from Daimler-Chrysler when they became Fiat-Chrysler. Since a warranty doesn't make them any money... They walked away from all of those.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Sat May 04, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
It's at about 175k miles, a lot i know. I ordered an updated tune from GDE after speaking to keith, he explained that the protocol for emissions testing must be turned on in order for aftermarket scanning tools to properly communicate with the CRD computer. I went this way because the stealerships are straight retarded and know nothing about CRD's, they admitted it and said they don't know what they'd have to do and it'd take a few hours of diagnosing to figure out what they're doing at the tune of $200 an hour.. $50 for an updated tune was a substantially smarter move, Thanks Keith!

The CEL works and everything on the jeep is running perfect, there are zero issues with it besides the fact that their stupid emissions equipment won't work with it. I will update as soon as i get the tune and once it (hopefully!) passes the emissions testing.
Author:  graycenphil [ Sat May 04, 2013 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
So not only did the dealer want to charge you for diagnosing, they were going to charge you for training their techs too!
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 04, 2013 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
graycenphil wrote:
So not only did the dealer want to charge you for diagnosing, they were going to charge you for training their techs too!

The diagnosing part I can see since the PCM has been modified and no longer covered by any warranty by Chrysler.Besides the PCM and cat are way past the federal 8/80,000 warranty.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Sat May 04, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
They don't know about the tune as its untraceable and we haven't told them, regardless of the GDE tune the computer needs to be updated to a newer version.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 04, 2013 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
irollgen4s wrote:
They don't know about the tune as its untraceable and we haven't told them, regardless of the GDE tune the computer needs to be updated to a newer version.
Your still well past any warranty so you'd have to pay eitherway.


I have zero issues with any of the scanners I use to read CRD's as long as they have not been tampered with(IE tuned).
Author:  Turbo Tim [ Sat May 04, 2013 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Since this is a known issue you may be able to talk to the head cheese of the state emissions testing. Here in Arizona you can get a “Director’s Certificate” and no testing.
(In Az the want to put it on the rollers and do the IM240 test. But there is no way to turn off the ABS system on the Jeep, so it thinks it is in a skid and shuts down the engine and turns on every light on the dash).
You might want to see if the state knows that other states cannot test the Jeep CRD as well. Just an idea…..
Author:  geordi [ Sat May 04, 2013 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
tjkj2002 wrote:
irollgen4s wrote:
They don't know about the tune as its untraceable and we haven't told them, regardless of the GDE tune the computer needs to be updated to a newer version.
Your still well past any warranty so you'd have to pay eitherway.


I have zero issues with any of the scanners I use to read CRD's as long as they have not been tampered with(IE tuned).


Incorrect. Tuning doesn't break the ability for aftermarket (Non DCJ) scanners to talk to the system, the problem is whether or not the original DCJ programming had been updated to fix the scanner flaw that they created.

Updates from tuners would only be looking to change the bits of the program that directly affect the modifications they are attempting to make. No sense rewriting the entire ROM when you are only flipping a few bits. This is solely a factory-issued flaw, so any CRD that you aren't able to scan, is more likely to be bone-stock than tuned. I'd also wager that you haven't worked on more than 3 CRDs in your bay at Failurestone, and we all know that you don't own one.

GDE knows about the DCJ flawed program, so he can update your computer in that section of the code. The rest of the tune (or lack of one) is irrelevant.

FYI: I had both a stock and a 'tuned' computer in my CRD. Both worked just fine with aftermarket scanners.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 04, 2013 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
geordi wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
irollgen4s wrote:
They don't know about the tune as its untraceable and we haven't told them, regardless of the GDE tune the computer needs to be updated to a newer version.
Your still well past any warranty so you'd have to pay eitherway.


I have zero issues with any of the scanners I use to read CRD's as long as they have not been tampered with(IE tuned).


Incorrect. Tuning doesn't break the ability for aftermarket (Non DCJ) scanners to talk to the system, the problem is whether or not the original DCJ programming had been updated to fix the scanner flaw that they created.

Updates from tuners would only be looking to change the bits of the program that directly affect the modifications they are attempting to make. No sense rewriting the entire ROM when you are only flipping a few bits. This is solely a factory-issued flaw, so any CRD that you aren't able to scan, is more likely to be bone-stock than tuned. I'd also wager that you haven't worked on more than 3 CRDs in your bay at Failurestone, and we all know that you don't own one.

GDE knows about the DCJ flawed program, so he can update your computer in that section of the code. The rest of the tune (or lack of one) is irrelevant.

FYI: I had both a stock and a 'tuned' computer in my CRD. Both worked just fine with aftermarket scanners.

I'm smart enough to not own a CRD and yes your correct we don't see alot of KJ CRD's actually come into the shop as we turn away most unless it's for tires,brakes,or alignments,to much hassle finding parts or anything to do with the engine.Some tunes do effect scanner campatibilty,not just talking about KJ CRD's either.

Eitherway the OP is out of luck for a free fix at the dealership since it's way past any warranty.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Sat May 04, 2013 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Im completely aware it's not going to be free, i don't know where you're getting that from. If it's a recall it should be covered regardless of mileage, but clearly this stealership doesnt know what the hell they're talking about. $50 bucks later and GDE will have the issue resolved compared to the thousands of dollars a dealership would want only for them to make the situation substantially worse.

No need to get butthurt because my CRD has gone 175k without issue and is still running like a champ. Oh and the timing belt was changed at 120k, substantially late and it's still been the most reliable car anybody in my family has ever owned.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Fri May 10, 2013 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Update: updated flash from GDE didn't fix anything, still fails to communicate. at a complete loss, thus We're making a shitstorm at chrysler.
Author:  irollgen4s [ Fri May 17, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYS Emission testing
Dealership fixed at the tune of $240 for the flash update and $35 for the inspection. Glad this stupid head ache is over.
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