I am in the process of removing my EGR (for experimental purposes only, of course) and have run into a twist. In the interest of cleaning as much out of that area as I can, I pulled the coolant return hose that serves the EGR cooler. It is clamped on to a nipple that threads into the side of the head. There are actually 2 ports in that side of the head for coolant return - one has a hose nipple and the other has a plug. I want to order another plug to replace the nipple for a nice tidy finish, but neither part is to be found in either the parts fiche or the service manual. I even looked in the '05 books - nothing. The service manual shows the hose, but not the nipple. And the parts fiche doesn't even show the hose, which I find REALLY odd since it is a molded hose, and hoses do go bad.

Has anyone else dealt with this? My other option if I can't find a plug is to put a cap on the nipple, but I haven't been able to find an appropriate cap that uses the spring clamp. The other option is simply to loop the supply straight to the return, but I have plans for that supply line.

And rest assured, I'm documenting the process and hope to put something up on here showing the whole thing.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

I assume that nipple can be unscrewed from the block in which case I suspect you will find that it's a common metric thread so you should be able to pickup a bolt (cut to length if need be) and copper crush washer (if the nipple lacks one) at a good parts store to plug the hole.

That said when I queried Keith about undoing the EGR cooling circuit and rerouting the cooling lines he discouraged closing off that circuit (I'd thought about capping that block port and pulling the line across the top front of the engine that currently runs to and only to the EGR cooler thus getting rid of the coolant flow over that entire route). I did not explore "why" but in hind sight at minimum taking the EGR cooler out, if it's not needed, is pretty simple but interrupting the routing of coolant from/to the block as part of that operation without a full understanding of the cooling circuit is probably not a good idea. May be harmless or may reduce or eliminate coolant flow to a critical point.

Take home message is I wouldn't block that flow path unless you know what problems it might or might not cause. Now routing flow to something other than the EGR cooler and then on to that port should be harmless.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I considered removing the cooler lines when I reconfigured my egr valve to a dump valve, but really did not see any problem with keeping the cooler function. After all if there is no hot gases there to cool all its doing is providing a little coolant cooling through the little fin assembly. I agree the hoses are a possible weak point if one ever cracks or breaks.

That may be what I wind up doing. Pretty sure it's an M12x1.5, and I will go that route if I can't find the plug.



Pulling the hose out was close to my plan; I still need to find a straight connector to replace the wye connector near the water pump. You make a good point about the coolant flow. There's a few things going on here.

1) While the hose is about 5/8" in diameter, the nipple in the side of the block isn't a 5/8" tube. It's a piece of bar stock with a 1/4" hole bored through it. That seriously cuts down on the flow.
2) The EGR cooler results in an increase in load on the cooling system, because it transfers heat to the coolant that would otherwise go down the tailpipe. So on a macro basis it actually helps the cooling system a bit.

It really all depends on if the nipple is threaded into a particular coolant gallery or just the general return. I'm going to take a look tonight and see if I can suss out some of the flow.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

I tend to be a minimalist - if something doesn't serve a function, I want it gone. That being said, I need to figure out if the coolant flow serves a function other than the EGR cooler.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

Comments:
1. for what it is or isn't worth the oil gallery plugs on the other side are 14mmX 1.5
2. if your EGR is not functional (plugged, MAFd, removed) for whatever reason or minimally functional (GDE tune) then there is essentially no heat load created to be transferred to the coolant at that location
3. interesting that the nipple bore so to speak is so small. I assume the direction of flow is across the top of the engine from that "Y" fitting to the EGR assembly, mills around in that assembly, and then back to the block via the nipple. IIRC there are 2 hoses on the EGR cooler that are much smaller than 5/8" so maybe the small hole in the nipple makes sense in that context.

I agree with you on the minimalist approach. Cutting out the EGR cooler if it's not needed gets rid of some hoses and a small radiator thingy that might leak so that's a good thing. Let me know what you find on the coolant circuit as I'd plug that hole and ditch the "Y" fitting in a heartbeat if I knew coolant flow thru that nipple did not go anywhere that mattered.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Too big - already checked. Fun fact: the drain plug from an ALH code VW TDI fits perfectly in the oil gallery holes.


Very true


It's definitely a flow restrictor. The 2 small hoses on the EGR assembly take coolant and route it to the solenoid actuator to keep it cool, but the bulk of the cooling is for the EGR gasses.



Hmmm, just was looking through the service manual, and I think I have had my flow backward. The wye connection isn't tapped into the cabin heater supply - it's the cabin heater return. So the coolant flow is from the block, to the EGR cooler, a little loop for the solenoid actuator, then from the EGR cooler back to that rat's nest at the pump/thermostat/viscous heater. NOW the flow restrictor makes more sense. With all of the other miscellaneous cooling system components - viscous heater, cabin heater, oil cooler - their water connections are via hose to the pump or the thermostat. But the EGR cooler is fed from the head itself, so a full size connection could short circuit the cooling water path through the head. Likewise a blown hose at that point would be almost instantly catastrophic - the cylinder head would lose the coolant before it has time to circulate. Think severed artery vs. severed vein. Putting a flow restriction in helps keep the coolant in the head in either case.

And if this is the case plugging that hole shouldn't hurt anything in the head - the coolant that goes to the EGR cooler has already done it's job in the head. I still need to confirm this, but I'm pretty confident this is the case.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

Update:

So, I looked at the engine and parts last night and came up with the following:

1) The flow definitely goes from the head to the EGR cooler, and then from the cooler to the water pump inlet via the cabin heater return. I scratched my head on this for a bit, since overall flow is water pump-->engine block-->cylinder head-->thermostat-->radiator--> water pump inlet. All the other lines that dump into the inlet are cool water - heater core and radiator - but this is from the hot side. My best guess is that the flow was small enough that it doesn't raise the coolant temperature enough to justify weird hoses.

2) The hose nipple from the block to the head is 18mm OD x 6mm ID, M12x1.5 threads. There are correct size drain plugs available, mostly intended for small engine oil pans, but I'm not going to quibble.

3) The hose itself is a mystery. It is marked about every 5" with "Trelleborg" and a bunch of code letters, none of which I could find in Google. The fact that the markings are in a "tracer" style - same ones repeated down the length - seems to indicate Trelleborg supplied the stock hose and someone else formed it. I'm going to go with VM Motori on this one, since it can't be found at all in the Chrysler parts fiches.

Given the configuration of the coolant flow and the size and routing of the nipple and hose, I'm going to yank it and replace that wye fitting with a straight connector. I just can't think of a reason not to do so.

And I did take pics, but the firewall at work is having a snit about my picture sharing account, so they will have to wait.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

This is probably why my CRDs warmed up so much faster in the morning when EGR was enabled. The hot water coming out of the EGR cooler was going right back into the water pump inlet and being circulated back through the block before the thermostat opened.

Let me know what you do to get rid of those lines. I am digging down there to install Etecnos right now, so I might as well delete that junk.

_________________
05CRD: GDE Hot ECU & TCM tunes, Provent, Cat filter, Facet lift pump, TransGo kit, Florida TC, Samcos, stainless brake lines, HDS thermostat, Renegade light bar,
RL super sliders, Bilstein adjustables, Al's Gen 4.5 Arms, 235/85-16 Duratracs, DTT rear, Elocker front, EVIC+TPMS, Turbo timer, McNally pillar gauges, Weeks Stage II kit.

I went ahead and dug out all these hoses to the EGR. Advance auto had a hose repair nipple to replace the 5/8 Y at the return, and an M12 x 1.5 drain plug to replace the nipple in the cylinder head. I'll post pictures if it all goes together ok. That is a very uncommon drain plug size.

_________________
05CRD: GDE Hot ECU & TCM tunes, Provent, Cat filter, Facet lift pump, TransGo kit, Florida TC, Samcos, stainless brake lines, HDS thermostat, Renegade light bar,
RL super sliders, Bilstein adjustables, Al's Gen 4.5 Arms, 235/85-16 Duratracs, DTT rear, Elocker front, EVIC+TPMS, Turbo timer, McNally pillar gauges, Weeks Stage II kit.

Ok, here's how I deleted this junk. My EGR is disabled via the ECU tune so the EGR valve is not used except to vent excess boost pressure. I left the valve in place, so that function is preserved. I just did this to eliminate the possibility of coolant leaks in this area, which have been reported several times on this board.

I began by draining a gallon of coolant from the draincock. If you don't it will spill everywhere.

I found a hose repair kit at Advance auto that included a 5/8" to 5/8" hose coupler, so I used that to delete the Y where the hot water returns from the EGR cooler and comes across the top of the block to the cabin heater return. Here's what it looks like right now. This is behind the thermostat - there used to be a black metal Y there.


Then I pulled out that metal line that goes across the top front of the engine, and pulled the hose from the EGR cooler off of the nipple screwed into the cylinder head, and unscrewed that nipple. I found a M12x1.5 drain plug at advance auto and used a copper washer under it. I cut 3 threads off of this plug because it looked too long. Didn't want it to bottom out. Autozone didn't have this size, but O'reilly had a nice looking one that I found only after I cut the other one. Torqued to 25 ft-lbs. This size gets used a fair amount in BMW drain pans, which are aluminum, and they spec 25.



This is how the coolant lines used to be routed in the stock configuration. Upper, larger hose comes from upper left and coolant flows from the cyl head down into the cooler system. Small branches are for the solenoid cooling. Lower large line flows out and to the left to go over the top of the engine. That hose was removed and upper hose was pulled off the nipple and just bent down to fit on the outlet. Now nothing flows through the EGR coolant lines, it's a closed system. I left the coolant in the valve and cooler just to keep it from corroding on the inside or getting crap in there. That way this is reversible.


Here is how it looks now with the cooler hose routed back.

_________________
05CRD: GDE Hot ECU & TCM tunes, Provent, Cat filter, Facet lift pump, TransGo kit, Florida TC, Samcos, stainless brake lines, HDS thermostat, Renegade light bar,
RL super sliders, Bilstein adjustables, Al's Gen 4.5 Arms, 235/85-16 Duratracs, DTT rear, Elocker front, EVIC+TPMS, Turbo timer, McNally pillar gauges, Weeks Stage II kit.

I'm due for a TB/WP/GP/ARP stud service and am thinking of other things to "fix" while I'm in there. I have the SEGR & the GDE tune both operating. I'm thinking of retiring the former since it doesn't do much at this point and MIGHT be adding minor wear to the turbo by not having the EGR activate in overboost.

Assuming that's the case, I will start having SOME EGR activation. Having not dug into the EGR plumbing before, It looks to me like the supply-side comes from the head, has a metal wye (one side going to cooler, one side going to solenoid), has another metal wye on the return side (again, one each from hot side of cooler and solenoid), and then feeds back to a tee with the cabin heat exchanger output?

If the egr only actuates in overboost situations, basically the entire setup is being bypassed and you've only left the fittings in place to serve some residual anti-corrosive function? That seems a like a REALLY good way to reduce the complexity of the cooling system for the long-haul.

Dan

_________________

2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

If you have the GDE tune the SEGR is not really needed. I lean toward keeping things simple so would suggest removing the SEGR.

Per Keith if you have a GDE tune you don't need the EGR cooler function so the lines can be pulled and rerouted as appropriate. Cat's approach involves a plug in the block, removal and rerouting of the remaining lines so no coolant flows on that side of the block. Another approach I've seen is reroute the line that goes to the cooler to the place where the cooler outflow line connects which is a bit simpler but does leave extra functionally useless line in place.

I kind of like Cat's approach although I'd save the removed parts just in case for the same reason I would not remove the EGR.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Yeah. I've had the SEGR so long (I think I might have been in the first 10..), and not having the bypass plug, I've just left it in since it was working and I've been busy with life. I wish I had made a bypass plug when I had the chance way back...

I like the idea of not having extra plumbing where it's not needed. Less coolant to replace, fewer hoses to leak, less complexity to troubleshoot, etc. I'm just wondering if there's a good way to "winterize" the cavities (perhaps with non-diluted HOAT or something) and just put rubber stoppers of appropriate size on the EGR and Cooler openings. Having no hoses at all (save the plastic bag where you keep them "in-case") would be ideal for the location. There's no water pressure, so clamps should not really be necessary. I'm wondering out loud if the straight-up coolant would be any better at preventing corrosion than 50/50...

Dan

_________________

2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

I seem to have a memory of there being some reason to not use straight antifreeze but I'm pretty sure that just relates to "in the engine"; something to do with mixed is better at increasing the boiling temp. Anyway I don't think it matters much one way or the other from the corrosion perspective although fresh antifreeze (mix or not) would probably be better than leaving old stuff in as the corrosion inhibitors don't last forever.

If you could find rubber stoppers that were a good tight friction fit they would work but might be hard to get in place but for the fact that your ARP stud job may open things up considerably.

Off topic random thought - if you have things pulled off that side as part of the ARP stud job what's your glow plug situation? I ask because you would have easy access if you want to replace OEM ceramics with metal ones.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

The water is needed because it's specific heat is substantially higher than antifreeze. It absorbs a lot more heat for a given rise in temperature. If you use straight antifreeze you run the risk of overheating because it simply can't move the heat from the engine to the radiator fast enough.

_________________
06 Liberty CRD, Alive, Stant inline tstat
97 Passat TDI, also down
02 Golf TDI - gone, wife killed it

Anyone completely remove all the EGR parts yet? I'm getting close to the day when I gut all this stuff and wondering how tough it will be to block off the exhaust. Pretty soon I'll have an engine to look at

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

Started installing the FCV elimination kit I got today from Week101. Good looking kit with all the parts needed for this project.
Removed the OEM FCV and elbow; while in there, I removed the EGR valve and the EGR cooler and all associated plumbing and hoses.
Most of the crud buildup was in the OEM elbow, intake had very little build up that I could see.
Been running with the EGR pipe blanked off & CCV elephant hose mode for a little over 7 months now.

Parts removed:


Made a lot of room with items removed.

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Soooo.......If I understand correctly, after the hoses are spliced together on the passenger's side of the engine and the plug is installed, ALL of the EGR crap on the driver's side of the engine can be removed? I just received my Weeks101 kit and want a good understanding before I proceed with the installation.

_________________
2006 CRD Sport
GDE FT ECO tune, GDE TCM ECO tune, ARP studs, HDS-001 203F T-Stat, 3.7L nylon fan & Hayden 2905 clutch, Carter P76148M in-tank pump, Racor 245R122 filter head & 2 micron R25S fuel filter, Provent 200, Samcos, Fumoto F-102, Litens 920834A de-coupler, PML rear diff cover, OEM trans pan with welded in bung, JBA UCAs, full skids.

You are 100% correct, plug the head connection, put a straight 5/8 connector fitting in on the passenger side, and then remove the EGR valve, EGR cooler, FCV and elbow (replace with Weeks Kit), and blank off the EGR supply tube that comes from the exhaust manifold.

Your motor will be glad you did!!!

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve