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Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
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Author:  TBurkholder [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Was on way to work on monday coming onto the highway about 3kms from the house the jeep all of a sudden died. Could not get it restarted first time I've had this problem. The jeep was warmed up prior to driving. I have the 2nd Gen fuel head, I have now changed fuel filter primed and bleed with no luck. Timing belt has been changed about 15000kms ago. I have checked and it is still together. I cracked a injector line and cranked the jeep and im getting fuel out of the line but it is just a trickle not much pressure. Any suggestions on where to go from here?
Author:  msilbernagel [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Any codes? If so, they're helpful.

Electronically, loss of a crank sensor can stall it. As a diagnostic, you might check the injectors to see if they're getting the signal to fire - as I recall, it's around 90-100VDC. If they're firing, it means the ECU is satisfied sufficiently to at least try and start. So, no signal means look at the ECU and sensors.

If the injectors are getting voltage, and there are no codes, it's usually fuel related. Could be FCV or the whole CP3 (CP3 would be unusual), sensor at the end of the rail (regulates pressure).

Do you have a fuel pump in the line somewhere - or is the feed to the engine-mounted( CP3) pump stock?

Mark
Author:  TBurkholder [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Thanks Im tracking down a scanner as mine will not communicate with the jeep. I do have a check engine light so I know there is some codes. Fuel system is all stock, Where do you check the signal on the injectors? the electrical connector to the injector, If so witch pins?
Author:  msilbernagel [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
I'd check near the connector/injector.

Looking at the service manual, the injectors appear to have 2-wires: YL/BR (-) and BR/DB (+). I'd avoid disconnecting to test, you can often use a stick pin to pierce the insulation and then clip on the voltmeter probe. A little fingernail polish on the hole seals it up when done..

Start with the voltmeter on a range to test DC, and at least 100 volts. If it seems not to be there, sometimes it's because it goes by so fast its easy to miss - switch to AC and see if it registers as a slight/modest increase while cranking.

Someone else may offer an easier means to check 'em.. :wink:

Mark
Author:  Billwill [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
msilbernagel wrote:
I'd check near the connector/injector.

Looking at the service manual, the injectors appear to have 2-wires: YL/BR (-) and BR/DB (+). I'd avoid disconnecting to test, you can often use a stick pin to pierce the insulation and then clip on the voltmeter probe. A little fingernail polish on the hole seals it up when done..

Start with the voltmeter on a range to test DC, and at least 100 volts. If it seems not to be there, sometimes it's because it goes by so fast its easy to miss - switch to AC and see if it registers as a slight/modest increase while cranking.

Someone else may offer an easier means to check 'em.. :wink:

Mark


Yellow/Brown and Brown/Dark Brown are the correct wires to probe for injector #2....other injectors have different colors (2006 CRD).
As stated it is best to stick pins through the insulation and put the meter probes on the pins...the pulse will be so short that the meter will need to be on AC to hopefully pick up a spike.


@TBurkhoder....you definitley need to get the codes out!

Also, what year model is your CRD and where are you based? The 2006 CRD has a known problem of the wire harness going behind the fuel head mounting bracket chaffing down to ground and causing all sorts of problems. :shock:
Author:  TBurkholder [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
The Jeep is a 2005 Liberty 2.8L And and I'm in Calgary Alberta. I have got a scanner and these are the codes I got
POO93 Fuel Sys Leak
P0087 Fuel Rail/System Pressure too low
P1265 Manufacture Control
Would the fuel sys leak and fuel Rail pressure too low codes be cause by my previous trouble shooting and priming and re bleeding? I think there still may be code that the scanner I have borrowed cant find as I deleted these codes and Check engine light is still on While cranking. I have a better scanner coming tomorrow from a friend, But for now this is a start as this is driving me nuts, Never fails I had a spare truck for the last 6 months and it sold a day before the jeep died :furious:
Author:  geordi [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Not to point out the obvious... But plugged fuel filter? Air in the fuel lines? The 'fuel leak' code doesn't mean a fuel leak, it means an air leak, usually at the fuel head.
Author:  racertracer [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
P0093 fuel system leak large leak

P0087 Fuel rail system pressure too low

Here is what GDE has said about these codes on a previous occasion:

"The KJ CRD has been plagued with air-in-fuel issues that can cause difficult starting, limp-home situations, stall-outs and sometimes a CEL. P0093 is the most common error code, but P0087 is also possible. The most common root cause for air-in-fuel is a melted connector around the terminals for the fuel heater. This connector is located on the fuel/water separator head assembly. There are two connectors, the heater is the one closest to the driver's side. An easy check is to remove the connector by pressing down on the retention tab and pulling. Then press the fuel primer on the head assembly until it becomes hard to press. Use a light to look inside the heater connector on the head to see if fuel or air is seeping out around the terminals. If evidence of leakage is found a new upgraded fuel head assembly is highly recommended! Over time the air leak will get worse and air can cause premature failure of the Bosch fuel pump inlet metering unit...this is when the solution can get very expensive!

Mopar sells an upgraded fuel/water separator assembly that incorporates a larger heater connector and bigger terminals that are properly sized for the current draw (no heat buildup). The assembly also requires an electrical jumper harness with the new mating connector. The original needs to be cut off and the two exposed wires soldered to the new connector.

Fuel/water separator assembly (with new filter) 68043089AA

Wire harness kit 68043086AA

The installation is very straight forward and only takes 10-20 minutes. There are two nuts holding the assembly to the firewall (remove these first), then remove the three electrical connectors on the assembly (3rd one on bottom of filter), loosen clamps on fuel supply lines and remove. Then install new unit and re-assemble.

This mod is a good preventative measure and is a good starting point for anyone currently facing air in fuel issues. There are other potential leak paths in the fuel system, but this one is the issue for the vast majority. "




P1265 was a manufacturer specific code that is referring to Glow Plug #3.

This one would not have caused you to stall and could have already been there.

Was your engine light on for a long time before this?
Author:  TBurkholder [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
While cranking and checking with a multi meter for power to injectors, I noticed my coolant level suddenly dropped off. I quickly checked the oil and noticed it has gone up. Im thinking this is a head gasket issue now??? My oil is not milky but it has definitely gone up, the coolant is still clean but every time I crank it goes down more. Im thinking this is going to lead to a hydro lock soon, as coolant is almost all gone and theres none on the floor. I feel im into this jeep for a head gasket change. Anyone out there have a rough idea on time frame for the job and a source for parts?
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
idparts.com for the parts... Book time is 8 hours for the labor, double that because you've never done it before.
You will need the timing belt tools as well.

Where are you located? Someone might be nearby to assist.
Author:  dirtmover [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
TBurkholder wrote:
While cranking and checking with a multi meter for power to injectors, I noticed my coolant level suddenly dropped off. I quickly checked the oil and noticed it has gone up. Im thinking this is a head gasket issue now??? My oil is not milky but it has definitely gone up, the coolant is still clean but every time I crank it goes down more. Im thinking this is going to lead to a hydro lock soon, as coolant is almost all gone and theres none on the floor. I feel im into this jeep for a head gasket change. Anyone out there have a rough idea on time frame for the job and a source for parts?


Ouch, I feel your pain, given your location this is going to be expensive :cry: You probably know that your local dealer isn't an option, even for parts. Since you're going to have to ship parts internationally you may wish to consider the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/#home. Shipping cost is probably similar to importing from the US but the parts should be cheaper.
Author:  TBurkholder [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Thanks for the info, I took a drive to the dealer today just to see how outrageous they would be and they had one head gasket kit with bolts in town at another dealer for $423.50 it is a 1.42 thickness. However I cant get there right now as half of the city is flooded, I may try tomorrow if rivers slow down and rain stops. The book calls up two different thicknesses a 1.32 and a 1.42 I'm going to assume the larger one is if you need to do any machining on the head when you have it off, If the head is all good and no machining required can I still used the thicker gasket as there is nothing else in town and I really want to get this project done. I do have the timing belt tools is there any other special tools required??
Author:  TBurkholder [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
I just looked up at IDparts.com and there prices are much better, I live in Calgary, Alberta anyone have a idea on shipping times, and how are the quality of the parts?
As quickly as I though I was going to be able to get started on the jeep tonight I have to stop as we are getting hammered here with weather and have to leave. I will be ordering parts up soon and hopefully and getting onto the replacement next week provided the jeep doesn't float away with my garage.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Idparts sells only genuine VM and quality parts. Corey (who works for them) is a member here, and good people.

As far as the head gasket - There are actually FOUR sizes, marked by the existence of either 0, 1, 2, or 3 holes in a specific place on the head gasket. The difference is NOT because of any machining of the head. The book (and VM) flatly deny the ability to do any machining to fix a warped head, and I tend to agree with this. That head is so dang thin already, if you tried to machine anything, you are as likely as not - cut right through a water jacket. They COULD have fire-ringed the head for strength... But no.

Anyway - the holes on the head gasket indicate what the measurement of the cylinder liner and piston protrusions are. If you are not removing the cylinder liners (I hope not) and you don't rotate the engine without the head attached, then the liners shouldn't move and you can just get the same measurement of the gasket you have now.

Strongly consider either the ARP head studs (contact LMWatbullrun for numbers and info) or chasing the threads and using assembly lube on the factory bolts when you reassemble everything. YOU CANNOT GET THESE BOLTS TO THE YIELD POINT without severely damaging (crushing) the head. DO NOT TRY. Follow the book's instructions on torque (I believe the number is like 90lbs or so) then it is a certain number of degrees of turn. You can add LOTS more degrees without risking the bolts, but I would use a torque wrench and set it for 135lb-ft. If it clicks - STOP. LMW might have some thoughts about this idea, so please check with him first. I will freely admit, I am going from memory of tearing down and rebuilding mine, a year ago. Some of these numbers might not be what I remember them as.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
TBurkholder wrote:
I just looked up at IDparts.com and there prices are much better, I live in Calgary, Alberta anyone have a idea on shipping times, and how are the quality of the parts?
As quickly as I though I was going to be able to get started on the jeep tonight I have to stop as we are getting hammered here with weather and have to leave. I will be ordering parts up soon and hopefully and getting onto the replacement next week provided the jeep doesn't float away with my garage.


I got a box of parts from them in four days to Vancouver Island. They were in Vancouver in 3 days.....probably about the same for Calgary, although you may have to request UPS delivery by boat considering all the water you have out there.
Author:  TBurkholder [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
So was working on the jeep over the weekend and was starting to see signs that someone else has been in here, I get the head off and almost fall over. There is severe damage to the head, top of pistons as well as a crack in the number 3 cylinder wall. obviously previous owner had a timing belt let go and he hacked things back together with a new belt and sold it. Im absolutely amazed this thing ran as well as it was for me for the last 2 months I've owned it. So does anyone know a place to rebuild this engine if its even possible with the damage to the cylinder wall? can it be re sleeved? Or a place to get a crate engine, Ive started looking around and have found a few wrecked ones but then again with that you never know what your going to get? Any help would be great.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
TBurkholder wrote:
So was working on the jeep over the weekend and was starting to see signs that someone else has been in here, I get the head off and almost fall over. There is severe damage to the head, top of pistons as well as a crack in the number 3 cylinder wall. obviously previous owner had a timing belt let go and he hacked things back together with a new belt and sold it. Im absolutely amazed this thing ran as well as it was for me for the last 2 months I've owned it. So does anyone know a place to rebuild this engine if its even possible with the damage to the cylinder wall? can it be re sleeved? Or a place to get a crate engine, Ive started looking around and have found a few wrecked ones but then again with that you never know what your going to get? Any help would be great.


That stinks! Pictures would be helpful if you have them.
It is a wet sleeved motor and in theory you can pull the sleeve(s) and install new ones. Pistons can be had, too. With new motors running around 9k US, if you have the time a rebuild is probably the less expensive route, but you will want the complete miller tool set for this vehicle if you do it.

I cannot speak to the situation in Canada, but here in the US, you would have to find a good diesel shop and be prepared to spend some time educating the mechanic to get a satisfactory job out of it. Good luck!
Author:  Billwill [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
TBurkholder wrote:
So was working on the jeep over the weekend and was starting to see signs that someone else has been in here, I get the head off and almost fall over. There is severe damage to the head, top of pistons as well as a crack in the number 3 cylinder wall. obviously previous owner had a timing belt let go and he hacked things back together with a new belt and sold it. Im absolutely amazed this thing ran as well as it was for me for the last 2 months I've owned it. So does anyone know a place to rebuild this engine if its even possible with the damage to the cylinder wall? can it be re sleeved? Or a place to get a crate engine, Ive started looking around and have found a few wrecked ones but then again with that you never know what your going to get? Any help would be great.


As stated it is a sleeved engine so it can be re-built.
if you have not already downloaded the Service Manual for your year KJ then download it here....you can at least take the documentation to a good mechanic to help him out :?

I personally would try get a complete engine out of a low mileage wrecked KJ :wink:

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
Billwill wrote:
TBurkholder wrote:
So was working on the jeep over the weekend and was starting to see signs that someone else has been in here, I get the head off and almost fall over. There is severe damage to the head, top of pistons as well as a crack in the number 3 cylinder wall. obviously previous owner had a timing belt let go and he hacked things back together with a new belt and sold it. Im absolutely amazed this thing ran as well as it was for me for the last 2 months I've owned it. So does anyone know a place to rebuild this engine if its even possible with the damage to the cylinder wall? can it be re sleeved? Or a place to get a crate engine, Ive started looking around and have found a few wrecked ones but then again with that you never know what your going to get? Any help would be great.


As stated it is a sleeved engine so it can be re-built.
if you have not already downloaded the Service Manual for your year KJ then download it here....you can at least take the documentation to a good mechanic to help him out :?

I personally would try get a complete engine out of a low mileage wrecked KJ :wink:

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ


But he has this one halfway torn down already, and can see what's inside. :2cents:
Either works.... the other advantage is that he can put in studs. :) Y'all just knew I was going to mention that, right?
Author:  geordi [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jeep Died merging onto highway can not get it restarted
OUCH.
I don't think even a fresh box of Tim Hortons would blunt the sting of that discovery, that sucks!

Since you are now looking at a major rebuild, may I suggest that you also replace the main bearings on the crankshaft.

Yes, this means you would start mucking about in the bottom end too, but it will most likely be a lot easier (provided you have the space) to simply pull the whole motor and work on it outside the vehicle. An engine carrier will allow you to get that done safely, and then you can have a look at the bottom end which is another known weak spot on these engines. I had two of them let go on me, while the top end was never stressed. Your top end has obviously been stressed. New rockers are also called for, and now... The big news:

You will definitely want to find the Miller tool set (all 4 cases) because now the measurement of the head gasket becomes important. You need the special tool set to work with the directions for pulling the cylinder liners and once they are re-installed, measuring the liner protrusion. Then you can order the proper gasket.

We will all be here for any support you need, but I would strongly urge you to do the work yourself rather than getting a mechanic to attempt it. YOU DON'T WANT HIM TO BE LEARNING ON YOUR ENGINE. At least if you are learning on your engine, you have us available, and a much stronger desire to do it right - because it is yours.

Good luck. I suspect you will need it.
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