Transmission service options

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Just looking for some advice because I'm having a difficult time deciding how to approach servicing my CRD's transmission. I've searched the forum and others and know the options, but I'm really stuck on what's best. I am at 72,000 miles ... never towed anything, quite a bit of highway driving, not a very harsh climate. Fluid looks and smells OK. Just going by the 60k recommendation I want to take care of it. The dealer offers two options: a flush, without filter change, for $200; or a drain and replace (getting about half the fluid) with filter change for $200. For $300 or $350 (can't remember) I can have a flush and then filter change, paying for some of the new oil to be dumped out. Or I have the option of doing my own drain and replace (plus filters obviously), maybe getting a bit more than half of the fluid, since I can leave it draining overnight (have other cars). I know people have done DIY flushes, but to be honest, I just don't feel like experimenting with that ... I have a road trip coming up and need to kind of play it safe.
My concern about the dealer flush is I don't feel really good about leaving the dirty filters in, or having possibly crud from those filters washed into the transmission. The service manager assured me that 1) the flush cleans the filters and 2) whatever crud comes out goes into the machine, not the trans. Is that so? I was thinking of having just the flush done, then changing the filters on my own in a few thousand miles.
I have never gotten a flush on any car before, so forgive me for being a bit ignorant about it. On my Mercedes I've always done drain and replace, but it has a torque converter drain so I can get most of the fluid. I'm just worried if I take that approach on the Jeep, too much dirty fluid will be left.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:32 pm

IMO, do it all yourself.
Drop the pan and replace the filters.
And while you are in there, do the TransGo shift kit.
While doing the shift kit the valve body will be removed and
nearly all the fluid will get drained with it removed.

r1perk · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:49 pm

Without contamination or excessive heat the trans oil will last about forever. Just change the filters, making sure to replace the filter seal in the trans first. I also added a small bracket to end of the filter to make sure it held up tight against the pump. The only screw holding the filter in is on the other end.

Have between 6 to 8 qts. of ATF+4 on hand to refill. I get my filters from Autozone. They have both in one box for about $15. What a deal!

I also use RTV to seal the the pan as I have had the rubber gaskets leak.

I have never bothered with the shift kit. I just don't see the need.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Use only the updated OEM trans filters or risk a drain back issues.Aftermarket filters are not the updated design.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:14 pm

Make SURE you replace the separate anti drainback valve. I would NOT do Transgo kit or power flush. Too risky. Just drain and refill. MUST use Mopar filters.

DOC

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:24 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

Make SURE you replace the separate anti drainback valve. I would NOT do Transgo kit or power flush. Too risky. Just drain and refill. MUST use Mopar filters.

DOC

No such thing as a "power flush" for a trans,that is a name for a type of trans flush machine.You can not over pressurize the system or it will blow apart the trans right there and the machine also in seconds.All trans flush machines either use the trans pump itself to exchange the fluid or use a electric pump matching the output psi and flow rate of the cooler line system.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:51 am

I do not profess to be an auto trans expert, but there are numerous posts on this site which report problems subsequent to having had a fluid change with a flushing machine, but not everyone has run into difficulty. This may be due to technicians doing something that is incorrect, in the process, but I do not see how the average person would be able to do anything to avoid that. (The local transmission shop in our town has a $5000 machine he is afraid to use now because he has had so many problems with customers developing transmission problems they did NOT have before, AFTER he used it to change their trans fluid.)

I have complete confidence that it would be done correctly if you take it to TJ's shop, but if he is not local to you, I would suggest reading the links below, carefully, and then making your own decision.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76012&p=798156&hilit=transmission+flush+problems#p798156

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22505&hilit=transmission+flush+problems

Perhaps they were all just about to develop these problems and would have, regardless of the flush. Maybe they already had these problems and tried to blame it on the shop that did the flush. I do not know.

DOC

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:29 am

DOC4444 wrote:

I do not profess to be an auto trans expert, but there are numerous posts on this site which report problems subsequent to having had a fluid change with a flushing machine, but not everyone has run into difficulty. This may be due to technicians doing something that is incorrect, in the process, but I do not see how the average person would be able to do anything to avoid that. (The local transmission shop in our town has a $5000 machine he is afraid to use now because he has had so many problems with customers developing transmission problems they did NOT have before, AFTER he used it to change their trans fluid.)

I have complete confidence that it would be done correctly if you take it to TJ's shop, but if he is not local to you, I would suggest reading the links below, carefully, and then making your own decision.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76012&p=798156&hilit=transmission+flush+problems#p798156

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22505&hilit=transmission+flush+problems

Perhaps they were all just about to develop these problems and would have, regardless of the flush. Maybe they already had these problems and tried to blame it on the shop that did the flush. I do not know.

DOC

Almost every single "horror" story you hear about trans flushes is from the fact the customers trans already had a issue,known or not, and yes was going to fail shortly anyways.Have a flush done on regular intervals is best also,like every 30k or every 60k.Beyond that there just is no use having the fluid changed at all since you waited to long.I've done hundreds of trans flushes at work and to date only 1 known failure after a flush but the customer was aware his trans may fail as in-radiator cooler failed and coolant entered the trans.All we could do is hope for the best and he knew it.Alot of poeple try and sneek there's in for a flush when they know it has a problem like it's slipping,looking to get a free trans after it totally fails.I always test drive the vehicle 1st to try and detect any slippage and of course we are very leary at anything over 80k on the clock and no history of trans service.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:05 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Have a flush done on regular intervals is best also,like every 30k or every 60k.Beyond that there just is no use having the fluid changed at all since you waited to long.

So are you saying that at 72,000 miles, I should just never change it now? Why?

I still can't decide as I've gotten so many mixed opinions, but I'll pick up the MOPAR filters and fluid tomorrow ... assume I will use them at some point.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:57 am

The fewest problems have been reported when trans has been simply drained, drainback valve has been replaced, Mopar filters have been used along with ATF+4. I was in a similar situation as you and did the above after a LOT of research. Everything seems to be OK after 5K miles subsequent to the change. This replaces a good amount of fluid, but not all. I do not think that never replacing fluid at all is a better idea than the above. BTW, my fluid still looked pink on the stick prior to the change. What does yours look like?

DOC

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:51 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

The fewest problems have been reported when trans has been simply drained, drainback valve has been replaced, Mopar filters have been used along with ATF+4. I was in a similar situation as you and did the above after a LOT of research. Everything seems to be OK after 5K miles subsequent to the change. This replaces a good amount of fluid, but not all. I do not think that never replacing fluid at all is a better idea than the above. BTW, my fluid still looked pink on the stick prior to the change. What does yours look like?

DOC

Mine looks pink ... appears clean to the eye and smells normal. Was thinking I could send a sample for analysis.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:29 pm

People often send oil samples to Blackstone. Not aware of anyone sending ATF for analysis. Interesting idea!

DOC

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:34 pm

Where is the drainback valve? Thought it was part of the spin on filter? Perhaps you could share a part number or more info. I heard about this before and posed the question, but forget if I got an answer, haha. I can't find the post either thanks to using my phone to search...

805gregg · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:17 pm

The problem with a "flush" is they use the same machine for lots of different trans and different trans fluid needs, just drain, new filter, new fluid and go

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 pm

I believe the part number is 4799 681. They call it "Valve, flow control" in the parts CD.

It would be good if someone else can confirm this.

DOC

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:17 pm

Where does it install?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:00 am

General drain back comments to the best of my knowledge:
1. this is an ancient issue with DCJ, perhaps others but I don't know, as I experienced it way back with the 1s gen Plymouth mini-van.
2. interim solution that works for an indefinite period of time is, after vehicle sits for ca. 8 hrs+, crank up; shift to neutral; bring rpm up to ca. 1,000-1,500 for ca. 10-15 seconds; drop to idle; shift in to gear and drive. If transmission hesitates, usually doesn't, simply repeat the process.
3. root cause is ATF draining out of the torque converter. Reason for drain includes - a) bad anti drain back valve in one of the 2 filters (MOPAR got a bad batch of filters years ago and some cheap aftermarket filters still have the problem); bad PN 04799681 flow valve which is a common DCJ part costing under $10 and IIRC is pretty obvious on or near the valve body (I know there is a picture here somewhere but cannot at the moment find it); or a valve/valve seat problem in the transmission pump. NOTE there have been a few cases of filters not being installed properly (IIRC one of the filters is push on and requires some degree of force) or the flat filter splitting.
4. solutions other that #2 above - a) service transmission with ATF+4, new quality (WIX, NAPA, Mopar but not eBay) filters and since you are in there it's probably worth tossing on at least a new PN 04799681 and maybe the Transgo valve body parts without the resistor or if that doesn't do it b) you need to either live with the issue or drop the tranny so you can get at the pump, IIRC in front of the torque converter, and either install the new style pump or possible the Transgo pump valve seat and while in there consider an upgrade to the Euro TC or if you have the $s the SunCoast.

Transmission service options

Who is online