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Timing belt procedure question
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76117		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Timing belt procedure question
How many that have done your own timing belt/water pump services have NOT disassembled the front end to do it? Also: who has successfully "re-used" the o-ring between the water pump halves from the NEW pump? What I mean is if you get a Mopar or VM pump, have you used the o-ring that is already installed on the new pump on the old housing? I see some reports that this o-ring runs a bit big when bought from Mopar. I see no reason why it cannot be reused with a bit of petroleum jelly or equivalent. It was never really used since the pump is new anyhow. Thoughts on all of this? I'd like to "reuse" the "new" oring as well as not have to take the front end apart, though that is still a possibility. My plan, as of now, is to do my 100k service next weekend.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I would suggest pressure testing your IC, first. (In order to keep it in place, I used a radiator test kit with a plumbing test plug in one hose and an adapter from the kit in the other hose.) If you are lucky, as I was, and it holds pressure, I would proceed without removing the nose. You will need an inspection mirror, more light and a little more time to keep the nose on, but it worked fine for me. If you need to remove the IC to repair/replace, you might as well take off the nose.

I used the o-ring from the new pump and Hylomar sealant (Grainger).

DOC
Author:  thermorex [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I did the wp replacement with the rockers (121-ish k), and haven't taken away the front end. Its not that hard with front end in place. I'm 5'11, and I found easier to place a 6x6 under my feet, to easier reach the bolts on the lower engine while reaching from over the bumper and radiators. I had a mopar wp, not sure who builds it, got it few years ago from a dealer. I used the new o ring and I also added a bit of orange rtv sealer on it, just in case.

On the other hand, doc's advice regarding the intercooler is very good, I havent tested mine, but plan on doing it soon. If you have a leak, now is probably the best time to fix it, and taking out the front end may be inevitable. I hope its not the case though. Good luck!
Author:  Drewd [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
Its a big job and an expensive job if done at a shop. How silly would you feel if you had to take everything apart again because a resused o-ring leaked?

I'm still kicking myself for not replacing the water pump when I had my TB replaced-I had the new pump on hand and my old WP didn't leak. 3k miles later, the WP failed.

If you insist on reusing the o-ring, I would only reuse the o-ring if you use a bead of Permatex Right-stuff around the o-ring as an added precaution. That right-stuff has NEVER leaked on me.
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
Drewd wrote:
Its a big job and an expensive job if done at a shop. How silly would you feel if you had to take everything apart again because a resused o-ring leaked?

I'm still kicking myself for not replacing the water pump when I had my TB replaced-I had the new pump on hand and my old WP didn't leak. 3k miles later, the WP failed.

If you insist on reusing the o-ring, I would only reuse the o-ring if you use a bead of Permatex Right-stuff around the o-ring as an added precaution. That right-stuff has NEVER leaked on me.

Permatex should not be used on orings. I have seen problems when it is used on rubber. It's not really reusing an oring, as it has never been through any heat cycles. I have spoken to several folks on here, through PM's, and they have used the "new" oring from the Mopar pump with no trouble. I think it will be fine.
Author:  ChesterCRD [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I did not disassemble my front end nor did I replace my water pump. I did replace my coolant and plan do the water pump at 200K service. I'm a little under 130K now.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Timing belt procedure question
I never disassemble the front end. If you do, you will have to completely evacuate the AC system and replace the filter/drier because it will be opened to the air. This is the factory process, as a way to make more money for nothing.

As for 're-using' the water pump o-ring... you aren't. The o ring is new, and everything around it is just solid metal. There aren't any moving parts in the back half of the water pump, and the only other things going on back there are seals that you aren't breaking, because the back half stays in place.

I've never needed an inspection mirror to do the timing job, and I'm not sure where one would be used. Just be sure that when you are threading in the tensioner, that it is not the last thing you are putting in with the belt, and that the bolt goes in perfectly straight. Otherwise, you risk damaging the helicoil that is all that holds the bolt in.

I'm on the road now, if you change your mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I helped two people who both removed the nose, but did not open the AC system. I could not see the mark on the front of the crank without a mirror with the nose in place.

DOC
Author:  geordi [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
There hasn't been a mark on the front of the crank on any of the ones I've done. There HAS been a mark on the top, as the #1 arrives at TDC, then I just look at the bolt holes.

How would you remove the front stack without removing the AC condenser? I'm genuinely curious about that one.

The factory process has the entire front clip removed down to the top of the bumper. I suspect this is so that the dealer mechanic can put a chair between the bumper and the engine so he doesn't get tired or a backache. :) There would be an ENORMOUS amount of room there.
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I took the whole front stack out without removing the condensor, it's on the video that Sir Sam did. I'm 6'3" and have fists the size of hams. This helped me sit and work on the engine from the front, and I just worked around it.

The Jeep I just did for TennesseeCRD had the whole front off too, we did rockers/lifters/timing belt etc. all in about 14 hours.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I have worked on three CRD timing belt jobs. They all had a mark on the front of the crank that is supposed to be at 3 o'clock when you have the pin in the proper position in the flywheel. If you have never removed the nose or used a mirror, you would have had no way to see the crank mark.

BTW, a mirror also helps to clearly line up the injection pump pulley marks with the nose in place.

DOC
Author:  camo [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt procedure question
I did my first TB job without tearing down the front end, but in all honesty is much better tearing the front end as you can clean the radiator stack and check other things on the way. Time wise I did not feel any difference on how long the TB job took me, but off course that is probably just me.
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