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Change your timing belt due to age!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76287		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Change your timing belt due to age!
I changed my timing belt/water pump/thermostat on my CRD today/ At 91,246 miles the belt was cracked pretty bad. The teeth of the belt showed obvious cracks as well. The rollers were leaking grease, but were not noisy or loose, the tensioner was not leaking any grease, and was not noisy. I replaced them anyhow. The water pump did have some play in it, and the bearing sounded a little noisy as well... so I am glad I did not skip this after all. All in all, it took roughly 8 hours. I took breaks, took some work phone calls, made some other calls to a friend who has done the job before, had some visitors show up in the middle of the job, etc. Without any interruption, I would say it would have been about 5 hours. Regardless of your mileage, if you have not done your timing belt, now is the time. Mine looked like it was getting ready to strip teeth. The issue is not mileage as much as it is time. The rubber dry rots and these means broken belt. Don't wait. It really was not hard, just time consuming.

On another note, the new Hayden fan clutch is on. It is noticeably noisier (you get the fan roar) when you first start it and start pulling away. Only lasts a about 5 seconds or so when pulling away cold. This is what the OE clutch would do when new, so my clutch was getting tired for sure.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Change your timing belt due to age!
Good to hear you got it done!


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Author:  LibertyFever [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Is there a timing belt on the 3.7 L gasser motor too?
I remember flipping through the service manual and seeing details on the timing chain.

sent from my Galaxy SIII & Tapatalk4 beta
Author:  4x4kingx889 [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
LibertyFever wrote:
Is there a timing belt on the 3.7 L gasser motor too?
I remember flipping through the service manual and seeing details on the timing chain.

sent from my Galaxy SIII & Tapatalk4 beta



Only the 2.8 crd and 2.4 gas had the timing belt the 3.7 has a chain
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
For what it's worth timing chains are not a "forever" item either. In the "olden" days chains were driven by steel on steel timing gears and well bathed in oil. How long that type of chain would last I don't know. However, sometime in the late 60's/early 70's some idiot got the hair brained notion that steel on steel timing chains were too noisy and that the solution was to retain the steel gears but only with tiny teeth which were then encased in some type of full size plastic gear teeth to mesh with the chain. I can positively state from personal experience that those plastic teeth are likely to be essentially gone at ca. 100K mile such that even though the chain is still good the engine is one slight hicough away from the chain stripping the remaining plastic teeth off and jumping way out of time.

How much damage such an event would cause would depend on whether the engine is an interference one or not.

How this relates or not to the 3.7 gasser I don't know.

My underlying point though is I don't like timing belts but timing chains are not perfect either.
Author:  LibertyFever [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
4x4kingx889 wrote:
Only the 2.8 crd and 2.4 gas had the timing belt the 3.7 has a chain


Ahh, thanks. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that fact.

I've never understood why vehicle manufacturers moved to timing belts instead of staying with timing chains. Chains do stretch but at least don't rot.

When timing belts/chains break I know it can destroy your engine. Valves can bounce off of the pistons & chew them up.

sent from my Galaxy SIII & Tapatalk4 beta
Author:  hegel [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
I have found a CRD located quite a ways away from me. it is very low miles but this thread has made me a bit nervous about the tb due to age. how worried should i be about making a 1000+ mile trip on the original belt?

thanks,
Steve
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
hegel wrote:
I have found a CRD located quite a ways away from me. it is very low miles but this thread has made me a bit nervous about the tb due to age. how worried should i be about making a 1000+ mile trip on the original belt?

thanks,
Steve

Where is it and where are you? How many miles are on the jeep you are looking at? It's a gamble, but I would drive it home and replace immediately.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
If it is close to the East Coast, I could do the timing belt for you before you take it back. Depending on location, someone else might be nearby who could also do the job for you.
Author:  kjjet [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
Glad you finally got it done Mike. How did the procedures work out for you?

KJJET
Author:  MRausch82 [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
Yep! Thanks for the help everyone. I drove it 160 miles so far. No leaks or odd noises. Got 28+ mpg upon topping off today, though that is probably not related to the belt service.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
You'd be surprised - As the belt ages and thins from wear, the cams and crank become further apart in timing. If working on the VW TDI timing has shown me anything, it is that the TINIEST adjustments can equate to BIG differences in whether the timing is advanced or not.

On Everett's CRD, the exhaust cam was actually slightly advanced compared to the intake and crank - He said the sound was better with the new belt, smoother. Part of that could have been adjusting it after pulling the pulleys for the water pump, but if the exhaust opens early, you let the power out too soon and just overspeed the turbo.

Thankfully, there IS about a full tooth of variance allowable without damage, to account for belt stretch.. But if the belt starts off already a tooth out... Bad things are in that CRDs future, and I would posit that it would run badly all the time.
Author:  ech0sh4y [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
Can I ask where and what tools you used? Also what did your parts list look like? Fluid replacements?
Author:  badassjeep [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
I bought all the parts for my 05 (new in 06 but a build date of 5/05) I plan on using the VW tools for the tensor and CAM pulley.

Did you make the locking pins?

I'm at 72k, but can't get it done during the next two weeks. (I bought it with 43k a little over 2 years ago)
Author:  geordi [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
I used allen keys on this last one, I probably will pick up a set of the English pins before the next one. The VW tools worked perfectly on pulling the cam pulleys and on the tensioner - Metalnerd made a MUCH better tensioner wrench than the Chrysler one!

To validate the positions of the pins, no matter what you use: When the pulleys are off, the two 'keyholes' in the cams should be DIRECTLY pointing at each other. Perfectly horizontal. If they aren't - Use some locking pliers and gently rotate the cam to the proper position. You will be balancing the lobes on an "open" valve position, so be aware of that.
Author:  kjjet [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
ech0sh4y wrote:
Can I ask where and what tools you used? Also what did your parts list look like? Fluid replacements?


Here is the procedure per the Jeep manual:

Jeep Liberty CRD Timing Belt Replacement
Procedure (2.8l diesel)
Revised by KJJET
1. Remove cooling fan and shroud. *In order to remove them there is two methods.
A. Remove the grill, bumper, inner grill and electric fan. Then remove the bolts holding the intercooler and radiator. Now with the intercooler and radiator pulled back the fan and shroud can be accessed. Remove the shroud intercooler and radiator then move on to removing the fan.
OR B. Remove the grill and gain access to the intercooler and radiator bolts and remove them. This will give you a inch or two to access the shroud and fan.
The fan assembly is best removed with a very large crescent wrench on the nut just behind the fan viscous coupling. Then hit the wrench in a counter
clockwise direction with a small sledgehammer. It may help to
spray with penetrating oil. Worst case, wedge something behind
the fan drive pulley to keep it from rotating and then use the
sledge method.
2. Remove accessory drive belt.
3. Remove both idler pulley (right hand thread, 16 mm) (a), power
steering pump (3 bolts that you get to by rotating the pulley, 10
mm) (b), accessory belt tensioner (c), cooling fan pulley and
bracket( 4-13 mm bolts) (d), crankshaft pulley/damper (4-10mm
bolts, you may need to hold the pulley by the 21 mm center bolt)
(e), and alternator (2-13 mm bolts on the front and 1-15 mm on
the back side-note you will have to loosen the 2-13 mm bolts for
the bracket that holds the alternator to the cylinder head) (f) .
4. Remove the front timing cover (7mm bolt x 17)
5. Remove both plugs in the camshaft cover (one on intake side
behind alternator placement, one on exhaust side behind
thermostat area). Remove the plugs with a 5mm hex.
6. Rotate the engine clockwise only with a 21mm socket on the
front of the crankshaft until the crank timing mark is located at 90 degrees (3:00) and a 6mm hex key engages the hole in the flexplate/flywheel.
7. Inspect the two openings in the camshaft cover to see if the holes
in the camshafts align. If so, install the two pins into the
respective camshaft. If not, remove the 6mm hex key and rotate the engine 360 degrees at the crankshaft and re-inspect. Note: this may take up to 3 rotations to get all three installed.
8. Loosen the timing belt tensioner and rotate it counterclockwise by
hand until slack is sufficient to remove the belt from the pulley.
Remove the old timing belt.
9. With a sprocket holding tool, Loosen both camshaft sprokets by rotating the bolt (17mm) counterclockwise. It is sufficient to have them loose; they do not need to be removed.
10. Install new idler pulleys: remove them by turning clockwise to loosen then counter clockwise to tighten. Tighten to 53N-m or 39 Ft Lbs. Loosely install a new belt tensioner.
11. Ensure that the high-pressure fuel pump pulley is oriented
Properly (see picture) and fit the new belt to the crankshaft pulley. Install a small vise grip at the crankshaft to hold the belt in place while installing the belt counter clockwise starting with the fuel pump, idler pulley, cam shaft sprockets, idler pulley, water pump and lastly over the newly installed timing belt tensioner.
12. With the new belt properly installed, tension the
timing belt with the tensioner as shown in the picture. If the proper
handle isn’t available, the tensioner can be moved with two 3mm hex
keys. Rotate the tensioner until the proper gap on the pulley is
achieved. Tighten the center fixing bolt to 30N-m or 22 Ft Lbs
13. With a sprocket holding tool, tighten both camshaft sprokets to 108N-m or 80 Ft-Lbs.
13. Check tensioner and reset proper tension as needed.
13. Remove the two camshaft pins and crankshaft hex key. Rotate the
Clockwise only 21mm socket wrench, 720 degrees, re-check the tensioner and reset proper tension as needed.
14. Reinstall the timing belt cover.
15. As needed install new accessory belt tensioner, idler pulleys and reinstall everything in steps 1 thru 3.
Author:  Verbal_CRD [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
After reading this.... *&^#(*&^#&(*! I shouldn't have given up my TDi tools when I sold my last TDi. :banghead:
Author:  KD6ICZ [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
I changed mine along with $1500 worth of all the other components at 60k miles just because the rubber was 7+ years old. Better to be safe than sorry!

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk 2
Author:  MRausch82 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
geordi wrote:
You'd be surprised - As the belt ages and thins from wear, the cams and crank become further apart in timing. If working on the VW TDI timing has shown me anything, it is that the TINIEST adjustments can equate to BIG differences in whether the timing is advanced or not.

On Everett's CRD, the exhaust cam was actually slightly advanced compared to the intake and crank - He said the sound was better with the new belt, smoother. Part of that could have been adjusting it after pulling the pulleys for the water pump, but if the exhaust opens early, you let the power out too soon and just overspeed the turbo.

Thankfully, there IS about a full tooth of variance allowable without damage, to account for belt stretch.. But if the belt starts off already a tooth out... Bad things are in that CRDs future, and I would posit that it would run badly all the time.

Today, after driving hard this AM (was running late, and had several jobs to do), I topped up as I usually do, and got over 27mpg. I used to get roughly 25mpg give or take. The last few "top offs" using my typical "to the brim" method has averaged right around 28mpg. I have some rather distant work, so I will see if it continues. It seems to run a little quieter, though that may be in my head. I have around 350 miles on it so far. Just glad I did it. I feel a lot better. Next up is the glow plug update, though I am not doing that due to a time factor among other things.
Author:  user113 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Change your timing belt due to age!
Mike,

Are you going to be selling any parts or tools soon? My '05 has 80K miles, it's probably about time...
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