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| CRD experts please step inside. (Video) http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76299 |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Ok here is a video of what I'm hearing and feeling when I drive my CRD. I've posted about this before but maybe someone can figure this out for me. I just had the eco tune done by GDE but I'm still getting crappy mileage and low power. I'm sure it is something mechanical hopefully something simple but I'm at the end of my rope. HELP!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onu4Sl8aIrU Turn up the sound. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
...What the heck was that? It is transmission related, that is my best guess, right where you should be in 5th lockup. Wild. Try fresh fluid / filter (Mobil 1 synth ATF+4) with a big bottle of Lucas Trans Fix into it before you fill with the Mobil 1. Might not fix that, but then again, it might. Lucas hasn't ever done me wrong, and my transmission shop guy also recommends it for everybody. |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
geordi wrote: ...What the heck was that? It is transmission related, that is my best guess, right where you should be in 5th lockup. Wild. Try fresh fluid / filter (Mobil 1 synth ATF+4) with a big bottle of Lucas Trans Fix into it before you fill with the Mobil 1. Might not fix that, but then again, it might. Lucas hasn't ever done me wrong, and my transmission shop guy also recommends it for everybody. It has fresh fluid/filter as of about 10k ago. Trans shifts fine and feels strong. I think my problem has been going on for at least that long. It may be trans related but really feels like engine related as it is wooshing back through the turbo. I had another member mention turbo surge and stuck veigns in the turbo which I haven't researched yet. Any thoughts on that? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Metal scraping or vibrating on metal sort of sound but the scrape is not, itself, at a high rpm. I can think of several things that might make the sound but not offhand one that would relate to low mpg and poor power. It's not turbo; if the turbo wheel was scraping the rpm of the sound would be much higher. Somewhat similar to geordi I lean toward a driveline related issue possibly transmission. Your rpms seem weird when compared to indicated speed. As speed goes up I don't see the rpm drops I would expect at various shift points. The only obvious drop appears to be around 52-53mph where rpms drop from ca. 2,400 to ca. 1,800 at which point the sound starts; the sound stops once the rpms rise to about 2,000 and then the sound comes back at least briefly at ca. 2,100 rpm. I suspect you have the F-37 shift points. I say that because at the maximum indicated speed at the end of the clip you are at ca. 62-63 mph and an indicated rpm of ca. 2,100 and maybe? (video stops) just beginning the post F-37 drop in rpm as the transmission locks up in 5th/overdrive at which point the rpms should drop to ca. 1,800 for an indicated speed of ca. 62mph. It occurs to me that the sound seems to be related to torque convertor lockup which I assume is what happens at the 1st rpm drop mentioned above and what I think is happening at the very end of the video. Going out on a limb check your drive shaft "U" joints. Best done off the vehicle as bad ones can be hard to spot on the vehicle. I will note there was at least one member who linked bad mpg to bad "U" joints. If that's not it you might check the torque convertor bolts. Don't recall the exact procedure but it involves an inspection port near the starter. Glancing back at your original post if I am reading it right the sound may have started after tranny fluid and filters. If that's the case I'd wonder about a split or dropped tranny filter banging around although what that would have to do with power and mpg escapes me. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
From what i can see, it dose it when it hits Overdrive? Did you try locking out the Overdrive? If it still dose it and you rule out the drive line like was previously stated try a turbo boost solenoid. Also check all the vac hoses over by the solenoid and filter. Good luck KJJET |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Turbo boost solenoid would be causing havoc at all speeds and power levels. All the solenoid does is switch between the vacuum and fresh air inputs to add or remove vacuum power to the turbo vane vacuum plunger. When the vacuum is applied (at idle and all conditions OTHER than deceleration) the turbo vanes are commanded closed. I do not know of any way to make the turbo sound like that video, it simply cannot react that fast to modulate from full open to full closed - the vane motion itself takes between a half and a full second, then the rotating mass of the center cartridge needs to react, spooling up or down. The vibration sound in the video was cycling much faster than that. This is not turbo related, of that, I am certain. |
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Anybody close to you have a 4 wheel dyno that you could use that way you could be on the throttle while you looks for something loose. Is the turbo tight on its flange? Are there any missing bolts you can see around that area? And when was the last time the transmission had any major work done and what was it? |
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| Author: | GreenDieselEngineering [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Sounds like the turbo vanes are stuck full closed. Check for vane travel at idle by watching the control arm below turbo actuator when vacuum line is connected and removed repeatedly. Also, rev engine in park, control arm should be moving...if not...problem area found. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Keith, if the vanes were stuck full-closed, wouldn't the power be amazing... Until the engine threw limp mode and had codes for overboost? The lack of any codes (or an idiot light on the video) is what suggests to me that this is something else. |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Issue is definate "throttle" related. It does it in other gears as well but it REALLY does it when it hits OD and rpm's back down below 2k rpm's. I can also hold it in a gear 1,2,or 3 and it will do it up to that 2krpm mark. When it does it, I can feather the throttle some what up or down or floor it or downshift and make it go away but when it is driven like it should be, it does it every time. It has made the rig practically undrivable. Also, the sound is all air. Not metal on metal. I guess it sounds slightly different in person than it does on the video. I haven't checked anything around the turbo yet. I'll check vac lines and missing bolts first. Also there has been zero work done on the trans except for regular maintenance and the last time was around 10k ago. It has performed exactly the same since I got the rig. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Ok, if this is air related... Like Keith suggested, start and idle the engine, then look at the turbo's vacuum actuator arm while you disconnect and reconnect the vacuum line a couple times. Does the arm move, about a half-inch each time? If not, then the problem could be either the vac modulator or the vacuum solenoid (the smaller thing on the vacuum storage box). The vac solenoid can be bypassed without bothering the vacuum functionality. If this all checks out... What about an actual air leak? Have the hoses been checked and securely installed? On a different note, are there any indications of damage to the intercooler? Near the point that the air enters the intercooler, Sir Sam has found at least a couple intercoolers with damage in the fins. Look for oil and filth collected on the vanes, that would collect around the point of any leak. If you still have the stock hoses, the oily filth that builds up on the outside of the hoses indicates that the hoses have become porous and the CCV oil is being forced through the walls of the hose by the boost pressure. Eventually, this will cause holes. The only other point I can think of where weird air leaks might be causing problems... The EGR and EGR pipes. It shouldn't be active when you are at high boost and high demand, but maybe there is a problem with the EGR and it isn't closing properly? Is your EGR system stock, or blocked off? I'm kinda spitballing at this point, hoping something triggers a solution for you. |
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| Author: | Glend [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
A fellow KJ CRD owner down here is having what seems to be exactly the same problem and is tearing his hair out trying to find the problem. He has bypassed the turbo solenoid, checked the vane control rod, checked the ECM signals to the solenoids, and looked for leaks. He's about to tear into the EGR valve side of things. He gets an overboost code and the check engine light comes on now and then. I have sent him the link to this thread and he swears that his KJ sounds like the Utube clip posted at the beginning. So he's following this closely. |
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
The vanes in these turbos are extremely sensitive and should be blown out quite often. Just from what I have seen from the last 2 i have taken apart and cleaned it wouldn't be that hard for them to get stuck open or closed. I dont see how the EGR vavle would cause and issue like this unless it was stuck in and intermidate point bleeding off exhaust in both directions decreasing the possible exhaust pressure making it to the turbo. What about pressure leaking around an injector do you smell a strong hint of diesel or see any around the injectors? |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
audiboy86 wrote: The vanes in these turbos are extremely sensitive and should be blown out quite often. Just from what I have seen from the last 2 i have taken apart and cleaned it wouldn't be that hard for them to get stuck open or closed. I dont see how the EGR vavle would cause and issue like this unless it was stuck in and intermidate point bleeding off exhaust in both directions decreasing the possible exhaust pressure making it to the turbo. What about pressure leaking around an injector do you smell a strong hint of diesel or see any around the injectors? Just had the injectors out when I did the rockers and timing belt. Everything looked just fine. How would you free up the vanes if they are stuck and or clean them? |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Ok I tried to do another video while checking the accuator. I'd say I've found my problem. Found an abnormal amount of oil seepage. All turbos have some but this is excessive. I didn't notice before but I have alot of in/out shaft play. I would say as much as a quarter inch in and out. Up and down is almost nothing. The accuator actually works fine and moves well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkwV3TT9q5c You can't tell much from the video but the sound change is me removing and replacing the vac line and the accuator moving up and down. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Turbo is going to be expensive but yeah, I'd say you found your problem. I believe Keith has some for $800, that's probably as cheap as you'll find them. |
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| Author: | Jay ne Ohio [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
The turbo on my wife's Jeep made a funny sound when engine was above 2000 rpm. It ran fine for about 6 months before the turbo finally let go. After the noise began, it started using oil, but only about a quart every 2000 miles. On the final trip, the noise level increased steadily until it blew. It then sent oil into the intercooler and in about 1/4 mile it only had about a quart of oil left in the pan. I replaced the turbo, but forgot to clean the oil out of the intercooler. When I started the engine for the first time it was running great. I then hit the throttle, which caused the boost to increase and suck the oil out of the intercooler into the engine intake. I turned the key off immediately, but the RPM's went to 4000 and stayed there until all the oil was cleaned out of the intercooler. The shop was filled with smoke, and I thought for sure that the engine would be toast. But, it has been running fine for about 7000 miles. I installed a "rebuilt" Garrett from BuyAutoParts.com for half the cost of a new one and it seems to be fine. I'll probably buy a rebuild kit and try to fix my old one to use as a spare. I've rebuilt turbos for my farm tractors, so I feel comfortable doing this. Other people may not feel the same and for them I would recommend buying a new, rebuilt, or used from a reputable seller. |
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
These turbos are not rebuildable units from everything I have read and heard. |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
I just checked with Keith at GDE and he said he was out of them and would not be getting anymore in. Where else is a good source for them short of ordering one from the dealer? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: CRD experts please step inside. (Video) |
Try IDparts |
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