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alternative diesel for possible replacement??
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76425		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  yes, it's diesel [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  alternative diesel for possible replacement??
as i sit here reading many posts about expensive parts, cracked heads, self destructing blocks etc, ( I may add that my jeep is currently in perfect order still) I wonder about having to search the country for a used motor and pay huge cash for it probably more than my jeep will be worth when I need the motor.
so here is my question / thought is there any other possible engine that will fit with minimal adapting, and no real hacking of wiring harness etc, ( the ECU experts will have to help with this one)
I do notice a Mercury marine Cummins diesel made by VM called the qsd 2.8, how much different is this than what we use? will it bolt in easily, same block???
or any other ideas?
let me know what anyone thinks thanks
Author:  Greasey Bob [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/#jeep_chrysler I believe this is a English company. But I am sure any changing of the engine is not going to be worth the cost. Especially a few years down the road Period.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I have given this issue some thought, and three possibilities have occurred to me.
1) put a 4bt in. Pro- easy peasy engineering. Con- weight and size. Might not fit. Jeep might be just a tad front heavy.
2) put a built 2.4 liter D24t in with the variable vane turbo. Pro- narrow enough to easily fit, easy engine engineering. Con- transmission attachment, length.
3) redesign and rebuild the VMM 2.8 as it should have been done, with ARP studs, ARP rod bolts, supplemental filtration, supplemental oil pump, etc, etc. Possibly replace the computer controlled injection system with a mechanical system, and replace the transmission with a manual. Pro- easy fit. Con- time and money.The other thought is to get an old CJ and put a diesel in that. problem is that I really like driving the Liberty. It is everything one could want when it works properly. Quiet, powerful, efficient, responsive, offroad capable, easy to park, can pull massive loads if needs be, what's not to like?

I think that the right answer is to make the Liberty all that it can reasonably be by putting in head studs to deal w HG issues and SEGR/GDE and supplemental filtration to deal w soot and doing the requisite PM checks, and call it good enough. Taking soot and head warping issues out of things will take care of 90% of the serious problems I have read about.
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I think a 4BT would be a great mod for the Liberty.
Still lots of old mechanical injection engines available which makes wiring super easy.
It wont mate easily the 545RFE transmissions, but it will fit onto a T/H-400.
No electronics there either, super easy.
Is it heavy? Hell yes!
Perfect excuse to do that straight-front-axle mod you've always wanted. :D
The 4BT is a taller block. You may need to cut a hole in the hood to allow room for the valve covers.
That only adds more to the COOL factor! :frankie:
Lastly, you tweak the injection pump and injectors and soon you will have a black smoke spewing,
monster of a jeep with 500 ft/lbs of torque! :twisted:
Author:  thermorex [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
A 4bt can push easy 300hp and way over 500lb/ft. But its almost 1000 lbs. Theoretically you'll need a dana 60 in front, or another one ton axle. Imo, not worth. On a wrangler, definitely. I'd better swap with a mercedes 3.0 td 5 cyl ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes ... 602_engine), but it may be too long for liberty. The 4 cyl mercedes td is a little underpowered and I wouldn't use it. You can also get a cherokee and swap the om602, I'm personally researching this as we speak for my cherokee. The other problem with swapping will be the wiring and transmission, not sure how you can keep the 545rfe with a non-computer engine.
Author:  CIMARRON13 [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I am putting a 6BT in my 80 series Land Cruiser at the moment and 4" lift is a minimum requirement to get the oil pan to fit over the axle. It's a TALL engine. The 4BT is the same engine minus 2 cylinders. I can't see it fitting in the Liberty unless its lifted a good amount and the oil pan is modified.
Author:  yes, it's diesel [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
i do not think the 4bt is a viable answer, too much work and not proper fitment.
the mercury marine engine - cummins 2.8 (is supposed to be made by VM ) does anyone have access to this motor? same block and head as our liberty?? this appears to be an item we can buy easily "off the shelf".
I do know when you say marine the cost is multiplied, but it may be worth it for us.
I also am trying to get something that is available here in the US, not from Europe.

I really would like to see the mercury marine 2.8 in person.
Author:  CIMARRON13 [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I would hope Cummins is not letting VM make an engine for them. I think Fiat owns VM and is trying to bring their engine into the market rather than use the Cummins. I find it odd that Ram is not using a Cummins in the 1/2 ton truck coming out but using the VM engine from the Grand Cherokee. Maybe thats why the Nissan Titan is getting a v8 Cummins in 2015. Should be interesting to see how the Dodge/Cummins loyalists deal with that.
Author:  yes, it's diesel [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I may be incorrect but I have read on several websites the mercury marine cummins 2.8 is made by VM. I am hopeing this 2.8 is similar to our VM 2.8. Yes fiat now owns all of VM this is probably why they no longer need cummins, so they hooked up with Nissan. I would only assume fiat wants to use their own motors in their vehicles.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
I'd "deal with it" by buying a truck with a (hopefully) indestructible motor, and getting a great engine surrounded by a truck that isn't a Chrysler, so it won't weigh 4 times what it should and get half the mileage it could!

Longevity also could be a big improvement over VM... Their engineering hasn't exactly wowed any of us now, has it?

Whether any of these new VM powerplants have any quality or design issues... Remains to be seen. I think it is a safe bet that the dealers will remain clueless about fixing or maintaining them however.
Author:  woodtick [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
yes, it's diesel wrote:
I may be incorrect but I have read on several websites the mercury marine cummins 2.8 is made by VM. I am hopeing this 2.8 is similar to our VM 2.8.


It would be nice to find out for sure if the Mercury Marine Cummins 2.8 is made by VM. if so, could this be another avenue for parts or replacement long/ short blocks. :juggle:

Does GDE make a Marine tune? :rockon:
Author:  yes, it's diesel [ Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative diesel for possible replacement??
check this out
http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/forum ... Mercruiser

I hope the link works if you dig further on other websites you will see more but I still do not know if they are even similar to ours, or will remotely work for us.
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