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EGR Block off plate dimensions
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  EGR Block off plate dimensions
I got a request for dimensions of the EGR block-off plate I made and used on my 05 CRD.
Used 14 gauge sheet metal available at any hardware store or Lowe's, etc. (can use metal from a metal can)
Tools needed:
8mm or 5/16 drill bit and drill.
Sheet metal shears.
10mm & 13mm socket and ratchet
Drawing enclosed.
Image

Not a bad job, took about two hours total to make and install plate.
Instructions:
Remove engine cover
Unbolt fuel filter assembly and pull it aside out of the way (do not have to unhook any wires or hoses)
Remove top bolt that holds EGR feed pipe to EGR housing
loosen bottom bolt enough to acquire a small gap between EGR housing and pipe.
Slide block off plate under top bolt hole on flange and insert bolt finger tight.
Fully remove bottom flange bolt and spin block off plate around till bottom bolt hole line up with bolt.
Insert bottom bolt and tighten both till tight.
No gasket involved as it is a machine fit.
Replace fuel filter assembly and tighten bolts.
Replace engine cover, Job complete, no more EGR feed. :D

Note: you may want to replace the two 5/16 rubber cooling lines going to the EGR while you are doing this; I did as both were very hard and brittle. Actually broke one of them while installing the plate. Used Gates 5/16 fuel hose as it is rated for way more pressure than the cooling system will ever generate.
Happy motoring... :JEEPIN:
Author:  Lancer [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
Thanks - neat job!
Author:  KD6ICZ [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
Speaking of the EGR cooler... Is it possible to bypass the coolant flow to it all together? Keith told me this was originally an industrial engine. That would mean a version was made without an EGR or at least an EGR cooler. An example would be the kit I purchased from Diesel Geek for my VW ALH. It was a complete kit to delete the EGR cooler like the European models. I wonder if VM makes such parts?

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk 2
Author:  R2.0 [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
We just had a discussion about bypassing the cooler in one of my threads. Water flows from the head through a hose nipple with a restrictor orifice, through the cooler and egr valve, and returns via the metal pipe that goes right behind the timing belt housing to a wye with the heater return. Use a 14mm plug with a copper washer in the side of the head and replace the wye with a hose repair connector and all that hose and tubing can come out.
Author:  KD6ICZ [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
That would be a great kit for ID Parts to put together! Along with blocking plates. Just eliminate the entire assembly!

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Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
I would think that once you block off the EGR and do not have any hot exhaust gases flowing through the valve anymore, you could do away with all the coolant hoses associated with the valve and plug them off.
Ya'll please let me know if we are thinking wrong on this issue... :?:
ww
Author:  CATCRD [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
WWDiesel wrote:
I would think that once you block off the EGR and do not have any hot exhaust gases flowing through the valve anymore, you could do away with all the coolant hoses associated with the valve and plug them off.
Ya'll please let me know if we are thinking wrong on this issue... :?:
ww

That's what I did. Deleted that whole hose assembly that goes over the top of the engine. There was long thread about it this summer, just can't link it from this phone.

Found it: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75401&p=792398#p792398
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
I cannot speak to systems where the EGR is physically blocked but I can say Keith is on record as saying the EGR cooler function can be eliminated if you have a GDE tune.
Author:  Glend [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
deleted
Author:  kjjet [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
I took my EGR system off completely. Including the cooler, pipes and all pluming.

1. The exhaust is stopped at the exhaust manifold. I cut the pipe one inch long and welded it shut.
2. I made a blocking plate for the bottom of the intake elbow.
3. A coolant hose was added to go directly to the head.

That's it. Running perfect for over 15k. Good luck!

KJJET
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
Glend wrote:
As my EGR conversion thread discussed, blocking off EGR - which I had done, negates the EGR turbo surge protection feature of the stock and GDE software. It's better to allow it to operate but run the GDE tune then you can remove the pipe and block the gases at the manifold, thus retaining the surge blowoff function.


Question; are you saying that blocking off the gas inlet to the EGR will disable this blow-off function? I thought that the waste-gate on the turbo performed that function? Should the EGR supply pipe be blocked at the exhaust manifold end and leave the inlet to the EGR valve open? My Dodge Cummins has no EGR, therefore no blow-off protection so is it really needed on such a small engine? Trying to make sure I understand all of this. :?:
Author:  Glend [ Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
deleted
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
X2 what glend said.
Author:  kjjet [ Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
The way I understand it is: Upon very hard acceleration with turbo spooling, then at a rapid deceleration the EGR would open slightly allowing the pressure to the intake to lessen.

I have tried this and it dose not have any negative effects on the running of my Jeep without the EGR. Some have stated the turbo may have negative long term effects due to back pressure.

I think the EGR effects out weigh the back pressure effects.

That's my :2cents:

KJJET
Author:  minisub [ Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
I still don't get the whole egr as relief valve thing. I have to work really hard to get my gmc with my "big" tune (520 rwhp vs 285 stock) to bark the turbo with egr deleted long ago. Garret VVT turbo and Bosch ECM, same as the Jeep.

I have stomped on the Jeep and let off immediately many times and never heard any bark whatsoever.

I reserve judgement on GDE's recommendations to not gut/delete cats or remove EGRs as it contradicts my experience with other IDI and DI diesel systems...YMMV....
Author:  Glend [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
deleted
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
Thanks to all who posted, good information to consider. Maybe some of you can help me understand how the EGR could be a blow-off valve if it is connected to the intake manifold after the throttle plate. When the throttle plate slams shut the pressure buildup would be in the area from the throttle plate back to the discharge side of the turbo would it not? According to what I have read on this forum, the EGR dumps the gases into the intake manifold primary going into number three cylinder. According to what I have also read, in a high boost situation when the throttle plate shuts quickly, the intake manifold side after the throttle plate would go into a negative pressure condition due to the scavenging effect of the turbo and piston action.
Turbo blow-off valves are readily available all over the internet, some adjustable, and some with different springs to set the blow-off pressure. They all work under the same principle using discharge pressure of the turbo in front of the throttle plate in conjunction with the negative pressure in the intake manifold downstream of the throttle plate when in the high boost situation and throttle valve goes closed. Does anyone know what pressure the valve should blow-off at? I have heard the turbo bark on my Dodge Cummins at times of high load and quick release of the throttle, it has no EGR and the waste gate has been disabled for well over 15 years. I have yet to hear the turbo bark on this Jeep after I blocked off the EGR valve. I installed a DiabloSport Extreme PowerPuck this evening that I purchased from a fellow member of this forum for less than half the cost of a new one. I will play with it tomorrow and see how it does.
Author:  kjjet [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
WWDiesel :

First the Jeep CRD dose not have a throttle plate. It has a FCV (Flow Control Valve) that during EGR valve operation closes diverting EGR exhaust into the intake Elbow. It looks like a throttle plate, but it has nothing to do with the throttle. Fuel is delivered by the ECU (Engine Control Unit) The FCV will also protect against turbo surge. But only if you have a working EGR and FCV. Most of us have had failed EGR's and added a GDE tune. Never fixing the EGR. So you have no protection. If you needed it in the first place?

My EGR and FCV are gone and i have never had any ill effects.

Best regards
KJJET
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
Thanks, that makes me feel better about having blocked off the EGR exhaust gas inlet. A couple more questions, how did you do away with the flow control valve and would it be advisable to add a blow-off valve in the feed pipe between the intercooler and the motor?. There are many blow-off valves available on the internet and it would be quite easy to add one if it was a big concern as some have stated.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Block off plate dimensions
At the risk of getting a rock dropped on my head I'd suggest a look at the EGR section of the 06 FSM beginning on page 25-34. FYI reference to the EGR air flow control valve = reference to the FCV. In theory the FCV modulates the amount of fresh/external air coming from the turbo thru the CAC hoses and intercooler to the intake while the EGR valve modulates the amount of exhaust gas recirculated and mixed into the fresh/external air before going into the intake. This mixing is supposed to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) but I have no clue how. Fuel delivery is controlled by the ECM and throttle pedal position sensors to deliver the appropriate amount of fuel to the injectors.

The EGR connects to the exhaust manifold via a tube running around the back of the engine block and then to the intake elbow at a marmon flange on the bottom of the elbow. If the EGR is blocked, I presume at the exhaust manifold is best, then no exhaust gas can be circulated to the intake regardless of what the FCV does or does not do. If the FCV is not functional I don't think much of anything happens although there has, from time to time, been speculation (it's only speculation as there is zero data) that it provides or might provide some protection from a runaway engine (that's not it's design function - see above FSM pages). If the EGR is closed most of the time but opens briefly under certain turbo conditions it can bleed excess boost to the exhaust. How needed that is or not I have no clue I'm just happly running a GDE tune which changed my stock smoker with the soot stained bumper above the exhaust to no visible exhaust under all throttle conditions.

Yes if you block the EGR pipe at the exhaust you can vent that pipe to atmosphere as a blow off valve. I don't have the details handy but at least one forum member has done so.
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