Ol' Blue is getting a new head gasket

bugnout · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:51 pm

The tab with the hole I indicated above is rusted on both sides, so if it had a part number, its no longer legible. Can anyone confirm this a 1 hole head gasket? 4 of the other holes are rivets holding the hg together, the other hole goes through both parts of the gasket and look like alignment holes. The hole indicated above doesn't seem serve any other purpose.

Today I did a lot of cleaning, got the intake manifold and FCV and elbow cleaned. Used some biodiesel first, then mineral spirits. Cleaned the timing belt backplate and cover and removed the water pump and lower radiator hose.

Removed the glow plugs. They are the originals, they all looked good, came out complete and didn't see any cracks or discoloration.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 271

bugnout wrote:

The tab with the hole I indicated above is rusted on both sides, so if it had a part number, its no longer legible. Can anyone confirm this a 1 hole head gasket? 4 of the other holes are rivets holding the hg together, the other hole goes through both parts of the gasket and look like alignment holes. The hole indicated above doesn't seem serve any other purpose.

Today I did a lot of cleaning, got the intake manifold and FCV and elbow cleaned. Used some biodiesel first, then mineral spirits. Cleaned the timing belt backplate and cover and removed the water pump and lower radiator hose.

Removed the glow plugs. They are the originals, they all looked good, came out complete and didn't see any cracks or discoloration.

Sure hope you are going to do a write-up and show some pics for when the rest of us get there. So, any thoughts on why it blew? Think the ARBstuds would have prevented it?

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:56 am

taroo wrote:

Sure hope you are going to do a write-up and show some pics for when the rest of us get there. So, any thoughts on why it blew? Think the ARBstuds would have prevented it?

Well to tell the truth, I'm following in the footsteps of a quite a few people here at LOST, so have relied heavily on other threads on the board from LMWatBullrun, CMPbiker, Geordi, RacerTracer, Dirtmover, Papa Indigo, Squeeto and many others. I've taken a few pictures, but don't really have much to add to the wealth of knowledge on this forum. I'll post pictures of anything your interested in.

I'm planning on installing ARP studs since this seems to have helped on TDI's suffering the same issues. I'm also considering blocking off the coolant flow to the EGR from the head and removing the return line, simplifying the plumbing.

The head gasket didn't technically blow, inspection show it is complete with no damage, but I've had a small leak for a while that has gotten progressively worse in the last 10,000 miles. I had a hard time deciding to pull the head as the engine runs fantastic. no other symptoms. I just decided that if I wanted this thing to last, I needed to solve this now. I have another truck and can afford to have the Jeep offline for a few weeks.

I've had two thermostats go bad as well as the fan clutch. I've had issues with overheating while towing and temp spikes while driving in a cross wind for no apparent reason.,all occurring between 75k and 100k. None of the incidents were catastrophic or for long periods. Down shifting or slowing down always resulted in returning to normal temps quickly. I never had the engine derate or go into limp mode. I have 135000 miles on it now, but the coolant loss has become more apparent in the last 10,000 miles although I think its been going on since around 100,000 miies. Lately I've had to add a pint once a week or after a long trip.

Anyway, I had the time and money to fix it, reviewed all the threads I could find on others experience and finally dove in. So far I have about 4 days into this and expect at least 2 more weekends although I'll bet it will take a bit longer. I'm not in any hurry, want to do it right.

sparks_vfr · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:10 pm

Hey bugnout,

I'm doing pretty much the same as you right now as well, I could see no issues with my head gasket but using a pint of so of water a week, so have sent the head off to be skimmed and hot pressure tested just in case there is a small crack allowing ingress of water. I was going to just replace the gasket, WP, thermo, belt, idlers etc, but the thought of taking it to bits again if it still used water due to a crack made me think again and get the head fully checked out..
Luckily I found an engineering company not too far from me who are doing all the work for 75GBP ($120), also they can repair heads if the crack is accessible..

I'd suggest you do the same, am sure someone will be able to recommend a shop close to you who can do this work..

Simon

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:48 pm

sparks_vfr wrote:

Hey bugnout,

I'm doing pretty much the same as you right now as well, I could see no issues with my head gasket but using a pint of so of water a week, so have sent the head off to be skimmed and hot pressure tested just in case there is a small crack allowing ingress of water. I was going to just replace the gasket, WP, thermo, belt, idlers etc, but the thought of taking it to bits again if it still used water due to a crack made me think again and get the head fully checked out..
Luckily I found an engineering company not too far from me who are doing all the work for 75GBP ($120), also they can repair heads if the crack is accessible..

I'd suggest you do the same, am sure someone will be able to recommend a shop close to you who can do this work..

Simon

Yup, thats kind of what I'm worrying about as well. I was planning on taking it in tomorrow to a local shop. Not sure what they can do, but I'll ask about pressure testing. When you say "Skimmed, do you mean cleaned or machined resurfacing?

Thanks for the tip
Scott

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:47 pm

Got a question, what do you guys use to clean the block? how about the aluminum head. I've tried scotch pads and biodiesel and mineral spirits, but can't seem to get it clean enough for my tastes. I saw LMWatBullrun's pictures and the block shines. Like to do the same.

Ok, got some pictures

This is the only evidence I saw of a leak. This is the front cylinder

here are the 135,000 mile original glow plugs.

Here is the head, Front is to the right

Intake side valves stems show no wear at all. Three of the exhaust valve stems show some wear. this is the worst one. I'm no expert, but doesn't look bad. What do you think? No mushrooming at all, just this slotlike wear pattern on the end. the Rocker for those valves appear good, roll nicely, no apparent wear.

I used a steel roofers square as a straight edge and a flashlight to check the deck for any warping. Everything looks good. I think I'm going to take it in and have it checked tomorrow.

sparks_vfr · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:07 pm

bugnout wrote:

Yup, thats kind of what I'm worrying about as well. I was planning on taking it in tomorrow to a local shop. Not sure what they can do, but I'll ask about pressure testing. When you say "Skimmed, do you mean cleaned or machined resurfacing?

Thanks for the tip
Scott

Sorry yes, re-surfaced..

The machine shop called me today with bad news, a non-repairable crack through the exhaust port.. Gutted..

Glad I got it tested though as the pain in putting it back together only to find it still leaking :banghead:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:25 pm

sparks_vfr wrote:

bugnout wrote:

Yup, thats kind of what I'm worrying about as well. I was planning on taking it in tomorrow to a local shop. Not sure what they can do, but I'll ask about pressure testing. When you say "Skimmed, do you mean cleaned or machined resurfacing?

Thanks for the tip
Scott

Sorry yes, re-surfaced..

The machine shop called me today with bad news, a non-repairable crack through the exhaust port.. Gutted..

Glad I got it tested though as the pain in putting it back together only to find it still leaking :banghead:

That does suck, but MUCH better to find it out now than after going through all that work to reassemble everything.
For a replacement head, I can suggest car-part.com for boneyards, IDparts or VMdieselspecialist.com for new. VMspecialist is out of the UK however, so the shipping and exchange rate aren't going to do you any favors.

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:12 pm

Machine shop asked if I wanted the valve seals replaced. Then digging in further, he couldn't find the parts listed anywhere.

Is this something I should consider? are they available?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 pm

Why? If the head is trashed it needs to be replaced and replacements are complete (valves and all) at least from ID Parts although you might check with Keith at GDE as he has odd things like heads from time to time at a very good price. Now a used head is a different matter. In the latter case I don't know if seals are available although I'm sure they are from somewhere like VM UK.

Might be worth considering saving the valves and valve springs if they are good for some other needy person.

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:48 pm

No, as far as I know the head isn't trashed. Machinist was considering taking the valves out to resurface the deck and resurface the valve stems. Sounds like that isn't common practice

I think I'll ask him to just pressure test and clean up the deck as best he can. Don't disassemble.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:21 pm

Opps, my bad, too many heads in one string so I mixed your issues with sparks_vfr's larger problem.

If it pressure tests fine may as well leave things be.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:02 pm

Bugnout, just a pressure test might be the best idea. From what I understand these heads don't have a lot of material to be able to be resurfaced, and you run the risk of cutting into a water jacket or oil passage.

cmpbiker · **Joined:** Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:26 pm **Posts:** 62

Just got my head back and its purty! Cleaned, disassembled, inspected, light surfacing and put back together for $100. Money well spent! The guy was concerned that I didn't have valve seals and I blankly looked at him and said, I forgot all about that! He called me back and said no worry they look like new so yeah for me. Tonight it s all going back together with new glow plugs.

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:34 pm

cmpbiker wrote:

Just got my head back and its purty! Cleaned, disassembled, inspected, light surfacing and put back together for $100. Money well spent! The guy was concerned that I didn't have valve seals and I blankly looked at him and said, I forgot all about that! He called me back and said no worry they look like new so yeah for me. Tonight it s all going back together with new glow plugs.

Fantastic!!! Your going to be on the road way before I will. I've got this weekend to work on the Jeep but I wont be able to get back to it for the next 3 weeks due to work. Should have the head done by friday so I think I can make some progress.

Leeann · **Joined:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:19 pm **Posts:** 523

geordi wrote:

For a replacement head, I can suggest car-part.com for boneyards, IDparts or VMdieselspecialist.com for new. VMspecialist is out of the UK however, so the shipping and exchange rate aren't going to do you any favors.

He's in the UK so that's the best option.

mark2m · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:49 am

bugnout wrote:

Ok head is finally off. Need some help IDing the gasket. I think its a one hole gasket, but that would be unique as most of these engines were put together with 0 hole gaskets. Opinions?

The head looks good so far, just cursory look. All the rocker arms looked good, as well as the cylinders. Only evidence of a coolant leak I could find was at the front cylinder. No evidence on the head gasket itself

That is a one hole gasket if you haven't gotten a replacement yet. Keith from GDE sells just the head gaskets without the bolts if you are looking to do the ARP studs.

My zero hole gasket for comparison.

I actually installed a one hole gasket thinking the hole in the corner was the indicator of the gasket. No issues have arise doing this thankfully. Runs like a champ.

mark2m · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:58 am

bugnout wrote:

Got a question, what do you guys use to clean the block? how about the aluminum head. I've tried scotch pads and biodiesel and mineral spirits, but can't seem to get it clean enough for my tastes. I saw LMWatBullrun's pictures and the block shines. Like to do the same.

I use a lot of carb cleaners and scotch brite pads and Roloc discs on a pneumatic angle grinder.

bugnout · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:30 pm

mark2m wrote:

That is a one hole gasket if you haven't gotten a replacement yet. Keith from GDE sells just the head gaskets without the bolts if you are looking to do the ARP studs.

I actually installed a one hole gasket thinking the hole in the corner was the indicator of the gasket. No issues have arise doing this thankfully. Runs like a champ.

Thanks, Keith is out of 1 hole gaskets, only has 0 and 2 hole on hand. I've got one on order though IDParts. It was only about $20 more with bolts.

bugnout · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:32 pm

Woo hoo, Head checked out, Decided to have the shop dress the valve ends. Now I have to track down the valve seals. Anyone know the correct part number?

In the diagram below there are two parts identified as a valve seal, Item 7 and 8. Do I need both of them?

ENGINE / CYLINDER HEAD & VALVES / CYLINDER HEAD & VALVES / VALVE SEALS
VALVE SEALS LOWER; Liberty 2.8L DIESEL

MSRP Core ? Online Price
$2.75 $0.00 $1.98
View Part Diagram -- Item #8

ENGINE / CYLINDER HEAD & VALVES / CYLINDER HEAD & VALVES / VALVE SEALS
VALVE SEALS UPPER; Liberty 2.8L DIESEL

MSRP Core ? Online Price
$3.60 $0.00 $2.58
View Part Diagram -- Item #7

Ol' Blue is getting a new head gasket

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