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| Bypass Filtration Options http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76818 |
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| Author: | amslube [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
I've been running the Amsoil dual remote bypass unit for over 6 years. Works for me. The unit I installed is the older cast aluminum filter mount. The new units are billet aluminum. Using the EAO15 full flow filter, EABP90 bypass filter, and Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 diesel oil. 
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| Author: | jrsavoie [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
amslube wrote: I've been running the Amsoil dual remote bypass unit for over 6 years. Works for me. The unit I installed is the older cast aluminum filter mount. The new units are billet aluminum. Using the EAO15 full flow filter, EABP90 bypass filter, and Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 diesel oil. That wasn't the oil that Amsoil recomends for these Jeeps. I asked about Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 diesel oi when I called the tech. Mostly because that is what I run in all of my 6.5 diesels. He said they did not recommend running that oil in these vehicles. They recommended a European diesel engine oil of which they make 2. And they only recommend one of them. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
amslube wrote: I've been running the Amsoil dual remote bypass unit for over 6 years. Works for me. The unit I installed is the older cast aluminum filter mount. The new units are billet aluminum. Using the EAO15 full flow filter, EABP90 bypass filter, and Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 diesel oil. I like the mounting location, How hard is it to change filters with them located there? |
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| Author: | amslube [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
There's not quite enough room to remove the filters as is so I just remove the 3 bolts that attach the unit to my mount for easy filter removal and installation. The newer units attach slightly different, but the same can most likely be done. |
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| Author: | amslube [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
I chose the HDD 5W-30 for the CRD because of the excellent results I had with that oil in my 2001 Ram H.O. Cummins. I don't know if the Amsoil Euro oil was available back in 2007 when we got the Jeep. Have over 6 years and almost 83K miles with the HDD 5W-30 oil and all is well. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
amslube wrote: There's not quite enough room to remove the filters as is so I just remove the 3 bolts that attach the unit to my mount for easy filter removal and installation. The newer units attach slightly different, but the same can most likely be done. I was getting ready to install my unit this weekend and found I did not have the room where you installed it. It appears my filters may be too tall. I am using a Fram Ultra XG8A which is the oversize filter people around here mention for our jeeps, it is the same thread/oring size as the Amsoil full flow filter recommended for the bypass, same filtration performance, and half the cost. It seems like mine will strike the hood, and i definitely will not be able to remove it without unbolting it. |
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| Author: | Auberon [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
You either believe in removing all dirt and muck or not. It is a philosophical thing. Respectfully would like to add Jackmaster at jackmasteroilfilters.com.au made in Australia. With Jackmaster - filter changes out of the top of the unit but it can be mounted in any position. It uses deep bed filtration. Jim Elkins is an extremely experienced engineer and very helpful with follow-up. I am working on fitting a by-pass unit between the battery and in front of the air con / fuel filter units but I am dropping the under hood fuse box and battery tray as well as moving it forwards (that's taken the time). On my RHD export machine I have the air con there instead of the Power steering res as shown in amslubes' photo. Considerably less room to work with. Some of these units work on the basis of depth of filtration medium rather than surface area as in a pleated filter. It is interesting to look at the differences and what they can achieve. |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
FYI - Warp did a centrifuge and at last report it was working well. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51648 and it's not " a philosophical thing" it's cost analysis. is the cost of installing a bypass ever paid back? it you're doing normal maintenance and an average number of miles driven the answer is no however some folks are outside of the average distribution - and for them it's worthwhile. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
ATXKJ wrote: FYI - Warp did a centrifuge and at last report it was working well. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51648 and it's not " a philosophical thing" it's cost analysis. is the cost of installing a bypass ever paid back? it you're doing normal maintenance and an average number of miles driven the answer is no however some folks are outside of the average distribution - and for them it's worthwhile. I did a cost analysis of the FS-2500 and the Amsoil Bypass kit in the FS-2500 install thread. It really depends on your OCI, but the payoff for the amsoil kit was not to bad. Especially true if you dont use amsoil oil and filters. That kit uses the same full flow filter that is spec'd for our motors, so I can just buy whatever off the shelf filter that fits the CRD and it will work on the bypass kit. Instead of buying amsoils $20 normal filter, I went to walmart and got the fram ultra for $8.50. |
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| Author: | DocB [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
Regarding above ^ I thought the whole idea behind a bypass filtration system was that it uses a finer filter that gets out the smaller particles that the full-flow does not. Correct me if I am wrong. OR maybe I just didn't read the above post correctly. |
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| Author: | Auberon [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
The philosophical question is do you wish to remove those particulates that docB notes. If the answer is yes then.....use bypass oil filtration. I need to respond to what has been said by one party. 1 Running a Jeep for many is not a business - it is a hobby. 2 Who in their right mind would ever choose to buy a Jeep if they didn't like the feel of it. No-one doing cost-price analysis seriously would EVER buy a dang Jeep!!! 3 Cost price analysis of owning a Jeep is a joke. It IS expensive to run them compared to other cars. To arrest any of these costs would be an improvement (see my points re failures at end of post). 4 Choosing to do cost price analysis or not is philosophical in itself. To illustrate further this is also philosophical: When does a big thumping powerful stereo pay you back? It contributes nothing positive to allaying running costs, nothing to the resale value by end of life and it creates a philosophical need to for some nob to break into the vehicle and steal the unit plus insurance premiums undoubtedly increase. Is the cost of installing a stereo ever paid back? NO! In fact, full flow filters were a relatively new development of the 1930's and 40's. This was due to the fact that oil was so cheap and it was cheaper to replace the oil than add a full-flow filter. Then oil started top become scarce. It is not so long ago that filters were certainly not the norm. I can, in fact, remember when petrol (gasoline) was AUD 0.40 per imperial gallon! SO: Where do you select your endpoint of the equation for efficacy of oil by-pass filtration? How does it improve ones overall maintenance costs or did was that guestimated also? Also: Have their been any top end or low end failures in the Jeeps so outfitted? I have read of none. That is a cost gain in itself over the failures. This may be a positive step towards prevention of those top and bottom end failures as a minimum benefit. Those trying this are pioneers! I know of anecdotal evidence whereby a large marine engine with an positively finite amount of lubricating oil successfully escaped a terrible predicament using by-pass filtration. Please see the Jackmaster site. If the life of an engines' primary components are increased to double or even trebbled (no-one can say until it's a proven case) can a useful cost analysis be anything less than speculation and based on better than opinion and supposition regarding the speculated unknowns in the determination of the end point. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
DocB wrote: Regarding above ^ I thought the whole idea behind a bypass filtration system was that it uses a finer filter that gets out the smaller particles that the full-flow does not. Correct me if I am wrong. OR maybe I just didn't read the above post correctly. You're right. But the Amsoil kit has 2 filters, Amsoils 2 micron absolute "bypass" filter and a standard full flow filter which just happens to be the same one that we use on our jeeps. Oil flows through both filters at the same time with the bypass filter getting <10% of the flow. What I was saying was that you can buy the bypass kit without buying Amsoil's $20 full-flow filter and instead go buy whatever filter you want from Walmart. Since the Bypass is the workhorse the main filter I doubt matters so much. This just brings the cost of the kit down. Auberon wrote: The philosophical question is do you wish to remove those particulates that docB notes. If the answer is yes then.....use bypass oil filtration. I need to respond to what has been said by one party. 1 Running a Jeep for many is not a business - it is a hobby. 2 Who in their right mind would ever choose to buy a Jeep if they didn't like the feel of it. No-one doing cost-price analysis seriously would EVER buy a dang Jeep!!! 3 Cost price analysis of owning a Jeep is a joke. It IS expensive to run them compared to other cars. To arrest any of these costs would be an improvement (see my points re failures at end of post). 4 Choosing to do cost price analysis or not is philosophical in itself. To illustrate further this is also philosophical: When does a big thumping powerful stereo pay you back? It contributes nothing positive to allaying running costs, nothing to the resale value by end of life and it creates a philosophical need to for some nob to break into the vehicle and steal the unit plus insurance premiums undoubtedly increase. Is the cost of installing a stereo ever paid back? NO! In fact, full flow filters were a relatively new development of the 1930's and 40's. This was due to the fact that oil was so cheap and it was cheaper to replace the oil than add a full-flow filter. Then oil started top become scarce. It is not so long ago that filters were certainly not the norm. I can, in fact, remember when petrol (gasoline) was AUD 0.40 per imperial gallon! SO: Where do you select your endpoint of the equation for efficacy of oil by-pass filtration? How does it improve ones overall maintenance costs or did was that guestimated also? Also: Have their been any top end or low end failures in the Jeeps so outfitted? I have read of none. That is a cost gain in itself over the failures. This may be a positive step towards prevention of those top and bottom end failures as a minimum benefit. Those trying this are pioneers! I know of anecdotal evidence whereby a large marine engine with an positively finite amount of lubricating oil successfully escaped a terrible predicament using by-pass filtration. Please see the Jackmaster site. If the life of an engines' primary components are increased to double or even trebbled (no-one can say until it's a proven case) can a useful cost analysis be anything less than speculation and based on better than opinion and supposition regarding the speculated unknowns in the determination of the end point. I believe the cost analysis came up because the FS-2500 kit cost so much more than the Amsoil kit and someone(might have been me) brought up a question about whether it really filtered that much better than the Amsoil unit, or if one would actually see a tangible benefit with the FS-2500 over the Amsoil. There were some bold Percentages thrown around in that thread that, in my eyes, meant nothing since we didnt know what it was a percentage of. I believe what I had said was that 50% less wear than an extremely small and insignificant amount of wear is essential no wear. I did an analysis of the time to payoff between the two units using the manufacturers suggested OCI's (factoring filter costs, oil costs, and initial kit costs) to show how one would compare to the other in the long run. With that said, the FS-2500 looks like an excellent kit and is made for the jeep so it's much more plug and play. |
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| Author: | DocB [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
mass-hole, better described in your second post what you are doing. But just so I understand, you ARE keeping the Amsoil fine-filtering bypass filter. Auberon, you are right. Our vehicle and engine have not been around long enough to perform a proper cost analysis of using a bypass filter. Two reasons why I am running the bypass filter: 1. Since I plan on keeping the Liberty for a very long time, I am basically looking at the cost associated as a gamble. I did all my homework and the info tells me that the odds are stacked in my favor. Cleaner oil=longer engine life. With the way I drive, the oil I use does not break down, it just gets dirty. 2. OCIs for me will soon be at 25K miles as confirmed by UOA. I don't have the time to piss around with an OC every 6500 miles. And, it has seemed in the past that it was ALWAYS time to change the oil at the worst possible time for me. Convenience. And with all the things going on in my life right now, the conveniece sure outweighs the cost. And if I double or triple the life of the engine, icing on the cake. And if I save money, even better. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
DocB wrote: mass-hole, better described in your second post what you are doing. But just so I understand, you ARE keeping the Amsoil fine-filtering bypass filter. Auberon, you are right. Our vehicle and engine have not been around long enough to perform a proper cost analysis of using a bypass filter. Two reasons why I am running the bypass filter: 1. Since I plan on keeping the Liberty for a very long time, I am basically looking at the cost associated as a gamble. I did all my homework and the info tells me that the odds are stacked in my favor. Cleaner oil=longer engine life. With the way I drive, the oil I use does not break down, it just gets dirty. 2. OCIs for me will soon be at 25K miles as confirmed by UOA. I don't have the time to piss around with an OC every 6500 miles. And, it has seemed in the past that it was ALWAYS time to change the oil at the worst possible time for me. Convenience. And with all the things going on in my life right now, the conveniece sure outweighs the cost. And if I double or triple the life of the engine, icing on the cake. And if I save money, even better. Yes, using the amsoil bypass filter and a fram Ultra XG8A as the full flow filter. |
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| Author: | jrsavoie [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
From what I have read the Fram is a terribly poor excuse for a filter. I will run the Mobile1 filter. I always run the best filters I can get easily. The bypass only filters 10% at a time, so if you aren't running a good quality filter with it, the bypass may not be doing much good. I have the FS2500 kit and it definitely needs guards for the hoses and filter |
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| Author: | amslube [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
I looked up some info on the Fram filter and all I can find is 99% efficiency at greater than 20 micron. So what is that supposed to mean? 30 micron? 40 micron? Very vague to say the least. I guess they really don't want you to know. A screen door has a 99% filtration efficiency at greater than 20 micron too! |
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| Author: | synthetic-oil [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
Anyone hove some pics of there bypass install? I'm an AMSOIL dealer so I'll be go with the single or dual remote if I can find a safe place for it. |
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| Author: | amslube [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bypass Filtration Options |
Here's mine but please note it is the older cast aluminum filter housing. http://syntheticlubes.com/crd_bypass.html |
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