Overheating problem

tbentzen · **Joined:** Tue May 07, 2013 10:27 pm **Posts:** 7

Hey there,

2005 CRD limited. Has intermittent overheating issue. Only happens while going up hill. No towing involved, moderate hill, sometimes as little as 45 sec to 1 min climb. 120K, factory anti-freeze. Problem seems to get better if the heater is turned on to full hot.

In the morning the temp gauge will hit operating temp after approx 5 min of driving.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:07 am

How high does the gauge go?

DOC

tbentzen · **Joined:** Tue May 07, 2013 10:27 pm **Posts:** 7

Doc,

It goes up to just shy of the red, a couple of tic marks of the red line.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:34 pm

tbentzen wrote:

Doc,

It goes up to just shy of the red, a couple of tic marks of the red line.

Any coolant loss?

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:51 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

Any coolant loss?

X2

How many miles ago was the cooling system flushed?

Mileage on the vehicle.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:06 pm

Assuming the system is full of coolant (instead of air), there is minimal coolant movement. You need to find what is restricting it. I do not recall a report of a thermostat that barely opened, but I would start there. What you report is a VERY small increase in thermal load. It should not result in any visible movement of the gauge needle.

DOC

TJ2 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:46 am

Fan clutch. Hayden 2905 is the fix.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:54 am

The fan clutch is almost certainly bad, however the Hayden shouldn't ever engage with such a short thermal load change.

Do you know if the computer has had the thermostat flash? There was a problem with the early 2005's that the gauge would be FAR too agressive in shooting up to the high mark, the flash fixed this.

To check the thermostat operation, you will want an infrared thermometer. Harbor Freight or Home Depot have them for a few bucks. With the CRD up to temperature, take a reading of the thermostat housing (passenger-front side of the block, right near the top) and then the radiator hose somewhere in the middle before it reaches the radiator body. The two temperatures should be the same or very close. If not, then your thermostat may be failing closed or not opening far enough.

Topan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:43 am

TJ2 wrote:

Fan clutch. Hayden 2905 is the fix.

i have again excatly the same issue than tbentzen on my 2005 CRD, i had it last yearm and it is starting again.
The summer (75 F) just finally hit here in the Alps and the KJ went hot for the first time this year
Same situation than tbentzen: 70-75 M/h slightly up-hill, no towing and the temperature gauge leaves the median (that it normally never leaves) and goes to the red marks... i just open the window, switch the heater on and the vent to max and slow down a bit, and the gauge goes back to the vertical position.
When this happen a small road, the trans stops to go in high gears, even if I rev up.

I have replaced my thermostat last year. no problem since last winter. (but winters are cold here,,,)
I have never cleaned / replaced the trans filter
I have replaced the trans oil 1 month ago with 75W140 (my mechanic did) ==> is it a bad oil ?

A question: driving at 75 miles/hour, would a well wroking fan be efficient ?
I mean, at that speed, the wind form the speed is anyway stronger than a well working fan , no?

what to do ?
Order a Hayden 2905 ? (by the way, what is the specs of the good fan that I should get with it ? )

thanks for help !!

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:16 am

You need the Hayden for the terrain you are dealing with. So, install it. However, you may have something else going on like a leaking head gasket. Check for residual pressure in cooling system after overnight cool down.

DOC

Topan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:35 am

DOC4444 wrote:

You need the Hayden for the terrain you are dealing with. So, install it. However, you may have something else going on like a leaking head gasket. Check for residual pressure in cooling system after overnight cool down.

DOC

can you be more specific on the procedure to check the residual pressure after an overnight cooling down ?
i don't know what to do and to check... :oops:

thanks

Note:sorry to tbentzen for highjacking his thread, but i hope it s ok as we are having exactly the same problem on a same 2005 CRD

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:30 am

For what it's worth:
1. shouldn't be an issue after all this time (e.g. should have become apparent earlier) but don't forget TSB 08-043-05 if you have an 05 CRD. See http://www.greendieselengineering.com/j ... st/19.page for gauge breakdown.
2. "overheating" may be simply a gauge accuracy issue usually related to the temp sending unit on the back of the tstat housing. It would be prudent to check actual temp with an IR thermostat.
3. actual overheating can occur for a variety of reasons generally falling into 2 camps - a) insufficient air flow across radiator surface (clogged fins on the radiator or anything in front of it; bad electric AC fan just behind grill causing AC condenser to overheat; failure of mechanical fan clutch which can be cured by replacement with the Hayden fan which cuts in a lower air temp off radiator than even a good OEM fan hence stops temp rise sooner) or b) insufficient coolant flow (partially closed tstat; clogged coolant system often caused by simple age or mixing of incompatible coolants)

A possible indicator of a leaky head gasket is to allow the engine to fully cool down (overnight) at which point all the hot coolant that was vented into the coolant tank should have been pulled back into the block hence there should be little or no pressure in the coolant tank; crank up briefly (I suspect less than 30 seconds); shut off and remove coolant tank cap; if there is significant pressure than you can suspect a head gasket leak.

Topan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:03 am

papaindigo wrote:

For what it's worth:
1. shouldn't be an issue after all this time (e.g. should have become apparent earlier) but don't forget TSB 08-043-05 if you have an 05 CRD. See http://www.greendieselengineering.com/j ... st/19.page for gauge breakdown.
2. "overheating" may be simply a gauge accuracy issue usually related to the temp sending unit on the back of the tstat housing. It would be prudent to check actual temp with an IR thermostat.
3. actual overheating can occur for a variety of reasons generally falling into 2 camps - a) insufficient air flow across radiator surface (clogged fins on the radiator or anything in front of it; bad electric AC fan just behind grill causing AC condenser to overheat; failure of mechanical fan clutch which can be cured by replacement with the Hayden fan which cuts in a lower air temp off radiator than even a good OEM fan hence stops temp rise sooner) or b) insufficient coolant flow (partially closed tstat; clogged coolant system often caused by simple age or mixing of incompatible coolants)

A possible indicator of a leaky head gasket is to allow the engine to fully cool down (overnight) at which point all the hot coolant that was vented into the coolant tank should have been pulled back into the block hence there should be little or no pressure in the coolant tank; crank up briefly (I suspect less than 30 seconds); shut off and remove coolant tank cap; if there is significant pressure than you can suspect a head gasket leak.

thanks for all these details Papaindigo !
I have a few direct questions to your post:
1 & 2: i will check the temp with an IR reader next time the gauge goes close to the red ==> However, it it possible that the gauge gives a correct reading during 100'000 miles and then suddenly start to give wrong reading ?

3: a) I have dismantled and cleaned the AC condensor and the Cooler. Regarding bad electric on the AC fan maikng the condensor to overheat: if indeed there is a bad electric in the AC, then I shouldn't have any overheating issue if the AC is off , correct ?
As said, i am ordering the Hayden 2905 and a nylon fan. But when driving at 75 miles/hour isn't the wind from the speed stronger than a good working fan ?
Regarding the coolant flow/clug, i will ask my mechanic if he knows how to clean it up.

And i will test tonight the pressure of the coolant tank after cooling down.

Thanks !

Topan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:09 am

...and one more question:
if the transmission is overheating because of wrong type of oil ( i have 75W140 :oops:

), dirty filter, or cooler too small, then is it possible that the overheating trans is creating the overheat reading at the gauge ?...

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:38 am

I'll try:
1. yes anything that adds heat to the cooling stack (AC condenser incl the tranny cooler in the bottom, intercooler, radiator) can contribute to higher temps.
2. gauges and temp sending units can fail at any time. I've personally experienced failing/failed sending units out of the blue.
3. not sure with AC off but there is some suggestion that the electric fan may run under some coolant temp conditions with the AC off.
4. in theory depending on ambient temps, vehicle speed, and speed/direction simple vehicle movement might supply sufficient air flow across the cooling stack to take care of cooling needs without any fan(s), some have reported running with no mechanical fan, but I for one am not about to bet on it.
5. any mechanic will know how to flush a radiator, in fact it's relatively easy to do yourself, however if it's badly clogged you may need a radiator shop. There has been at least one radiator so clogged with silt of some sort that I doubt that it would have been physically possible to flush it.

Topan · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:59 am

Thanks for the info Papaidingo !
I check the temp of the car yesterday after work.
I switched on the AC, and drove without excess power up a steep road. After 7 mn the gauge was in the red.
I stopped the car, engine still running, and measured the temp with an IR reader:
- Trans Oil Cooler : 208 F
- water cooler : 176 F = exactly the normal working temp !
...if I am not mistaken these temp are ok , no?
So it means that the reader has gone wacko...

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:27 am

Topan wrote:

...if I am not mistaken these temp are ok , no?
So it means that the reader has gone wacko...

I would change the coolant temperature sensor first!
Do it while it is cool, like after it has set overnight.
Make sure it is completely full of coolant with no air pockets anywhere...
Post your results. :JEEPIN:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:51 am

"- Trans Oil Cooler : 208 F
- water cooler : 176 F = exactly the normal working temp !"

If by trans oil cooler you mean the bottom of the AC condenser that would be transmission fluid temp. While I do not know what that temp should be 208F doesn't sound bad.

Can I assume water cooler means radiator? If so as I under stand that runs about 30F below block coolant temp so 176F implies a block coolant temp of ca. 206F which should put the temp gauge right in the normal range of vertical to about 1 needle width left of vertical.

I would be curious what the IR temp reading is on the top of the tstat housing, which should be close to block temp, but would agree that this information suggests a bad temp sending unit. PN 05066779AA I believe and should not cost much even on your side of the pond. The only hard part of replacing it would be releasing the wiring if, as was my case, the release tab happens to be on the bottom - on reinstall be sure tab winds up on top.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:52 am

If the measured temp for transmission was at the cooler, that temp is a bit high, normally it should be less than 150-ish, in normal driving with tc unlocked. Your Trans fluid in the pan has at least 10 degrees more. Do I understand correctly that the Trans fluid is running on gear oil 75w140?

Topan · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:12 am

thermorex wrote:

If the measured temp for transmission was at the cooler, that temp is a bit high, normally it should be less than 150-ish, in normal driving with tc unlocked. Your Trans fluid in the pan has at least 10 degrees more. Do I understand correctly that the Trans fluid is running on gear oil 75w140?

Yes right....I have told 150 times my mechanic to use the Chrysler fluid ATF+4, but then he was too lazy to get some from the dealer....
But my over heating problems appeared before the 75w140 was filled in...

Overheating problem

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