LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Oil from turbo. Need advice.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77030		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  fxjr73 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Oil from turbo. Need advice.
I've had to make the heart wrenching choice to sell my '05 CRD. In the process of doing so, I took it to my mechanic to take care of a of a squealing belt and to look for the source an oil leak I wasn't able to trace after noticing a few pitch black spots on my garage floor. When I climbed under my Jeep at the time, I found a bead of oil dangling from my Fumoto valve and traced it up the passenger side of the engine, but couldn't find the source. I can remove and replace parts all day, but I'm no mechanic and need help with diagnostics.

At any rate, I now have a new tensioner and he said the oil is coming from my turbo and that the only fix is to replace it (which was what I was afraid of).

So here's where I need advice...

Does the need for a new turbo depreciate my CRD enough to make replacing it worthwhile? It's in good shape otherwise. It has about 133,000 miles on it. It's Limited, lifted, has Rubicon Moab Wheels, GDE Eco tune, red Samco hoses, new Timken front Wheel Hub assemblies, a recently rebuilt passenger CV axle (rebuilt by THE CV axle guru in Chicago) and new inner axle. I installed new Wagner rotors and pads about two years ago and a Pioneer deck, amp and four Polk Audio door speakers after one of my amplified door speakers blew.

Has anyone sold a CRD recently? What would I be a reasonable asking price with if the turbo is replaced and what would I be looking at if I sold as is?

Any helpful advice is appreciated.

One note: Before the RRO haters start laying into me for my choice of lift kits... I know. That was the first upgrade I made on my CRD and I purchased before I found this forum and discovered Sam's Noob guide and all of the awesome info contained herein. That said, although I wouldn't purchase anything from RRO again because of their customer service, I haven't had a single issue with my lift kit. It was in my price range at the time, improved the ride noticeably and has worked flawlessly.

Thanks for any expertise or experience you can share.
Author:  thermorex [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
I'd personally wouldn't make an offroad from a crd without replacing the front Diff. To your question about turbo: if turbo doesn't have any play, and it doesn't loose lots of oil, I'd say don't replace it. But it all depends on where the oil is leaking from... It could be the issue Geordi had that caused oil starvation and have the rod popping out through the block... I bet he can help you with a better advice.
Author:  TJ2 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
A mechanic friend of mine told me that spending money on a vehicle your selling is wasted. I agree. I've sold three in the last few years and appearance is what matters. NOBODY has crawled underneath to check for fluid leaks. I'd spend $200 on a professional detailing job before putting that much into the motor.

I bought mine from a 'reputable' dealer. . . about 1.5 miles from where the original owner bought it. It threw a P0299 fault code and later I found out the thermostat and fan clutch were blown. Kept it anyway.

Get it clean inside and out. . . and list it.

PS I'm not a RRO hater. They are a scenic drive from where I live. If I ever bought anything, I'd go into their shop with a .45 strapped to my waist. I think it would set the tone for future amicable conversations.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
I'll start with the assumption that the timing belt job has been done and offer the following comments:
1. tensioner I assume means the serpentine belt tensioner. While that tensioner can go out doing so is not common and if it happens is usually caused by a bad alternator pulley. You really need to check the pulley. An easy check is to a) look for lots of red dust on the pulley cover and 2) with the engine idling look down the serp belt at the tensioner to see if it's bouncing around or barely twitching; if bouncing the alternator pulley is bad and will eventually kill that new tensioner.
2. I just love to death mechanics that want to replace very expensive parts without identifying the actual problem or at least that's what appears to be going on. If you want to actually determine where the oil is coming from you need to degrease the engine (warm but not hot engine; GUNK degreaser and a rinse not high pressure spray of water will do) and then look for the actual leak location maybe with the help of a bit of UV dye in the oil (less than $10 for dye and maybe $20 for cheap UV light). Before that though I'd go up top and check the base of the CCV valve, the CCV valve hose, pull the passenger side CAC hose and then the air filter to turbo hose (on reinstall make sure upper end touches MAF sensor before tightening) and see if that hose is split on the bottom just in front of the turbo, while in there check turbo shaft play (slight fore/aft ok; barely perceptible side to side ok; more not ok) and glance at both ends of the turbo oil feed (pressure) and oil return (no pressure) lines if you can see them.

Bottom line is there are a number of places on that side (don't forget the oil cooler in front of the turbo) where there can be a bit of an oil leak. Absent turbo shaft play I doubt the turbo itself is the source; when the turbo leaks oil it tends to be a catastrophic failure.
Author:  fxjr73 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
Thanks a lot guys. All of your advice helps a lot.

A few responses...

papa
You were right to assume I was talking about the serpentine tensioner. I had the timing belt, water pump, pulleys and serpentine belt replaced about a year ago with a kit from ID parts. Then a few months ago this squeal started when I would turn on the AC. It really did seem like the tensioner had gone and maybe a good portion of the damage had been done before I replaced the pulleys, but I'll check the pulley just the same.

I'll definitely follow your advice and degrease and then go through and inspect everything you listed. I wouldn't have thought to use dye and a UV light. That's a great idea! I want to do it just to see what it does! Thanks.

TJ
I totally agree. I was just worried that if the turbo is bad, it would depreciate my Jeep by more than it would cost to replace the thing. When you get right down to it though, the turbo still works. The boost is great on acceleration and beyond this oil leak, I've had no indication that anything could be wrong with it.

The detailing is something I was planning to do, too. I think it's worth the expense.

I want to be at RRO when you come strolling in with your .45 strapped on.

rex

I live in the flat lands of Chicago and haven't had my CRD offroad once here. It is a fantastic winter beast though. If I was back home in Colorado the front diff would be a consideration for sure.

I'll be doing a thorough inspection and checking turbo play now that I know how to do so. I hope I don't have a rod poking though the block.

Thanks again fellas!
Author:  Glend [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
If the oil is leaking from the rubber bung seal at the bottom of the turbo oil return line, where it simply drains back into the engine galley, it is a simple fix or you could leave it as it will not efffect operation.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
Glend is right that return line has a gasket at the top (can be made from any oil proof gasket material) and a push fit seal at the block (under $10 at the dealer). However, it's basically a gravity feed drain tube so if it leaks a tiny bit of oil it's not going to impact oil pressure or even cause much oil loss. Same with weeping from the CCV puck, CCV hose, tear in air filter to turbo hose although the latter is BAD as it allows unfiltered air into the turbo.

Points of concern would be the pressurized turbo feed line with ball head metal to metal fit at block and banjo bolt with 2 copper crush washers at turbo; turbo shaft; and oil cooler which is a bit in front of the turbo.

My initial money is on the air filter to turbo line being torn.
Author:  fxjr73 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
Well, you guys were all on the right track about the problem being something other than the turbo. The turbo is fine. In fact there's do discernible play in it that I can feel whatsoever. The turbo end of the airbox to turbo hose, however, had a loose clamp plus cracks and a hole. Look at this thing...

Image

I'm still planning to degrease everything and check the other stuff you mentioned, but this makes me feel relieved.

I just can't figure out what my mechanic did to supposedly diagnose that the turbo needs to be replaced since it took me about ten minutes to find the obvious issue with the hose.

Thanks again for all your help.
Author:  click23 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
Everyone needs to check that hose if it has not been replaced on your Jeep. It appears to have close to a 100% failure rate.
Author:  dgeist [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
fxjr73 wrote:
I just can't figure out what my mechanic did to supposedly diagnose that the turbo needs to be replaced since it took me about ten minutes to find the obvious issue with the hose.
.


He looked at the engine bay and identified one of two things as the issue:
1) The part that he least understands, therefore it MUST be the problem.
2) The part he can make the most on replacing, therefore the expensive part MUST be the problem

:)
Author:  cerich [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
click23 wrote:
Everyone needs to check that hose if it has not been replaced on your Jeep. It appears to have close to a 100% failure rate.


Anybody happen to have the part number handy?

Thanks in advance if yes. :-)
Author:  fxjr73 [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
If only Samco made these, too. I don't have the part number yet, but once I look it up or get it from the dealer, I'll post it.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
Air filter to turbo hose PN 53013104AE runs on the order of $65 at a dealer. Mail order cheaper but shipping can eat up the savings although I note a good price with shipping on Amazon and that ID Parts also has them possibly with a good shipping deal.

Failure rate is somewhat random and I would speculate somewhat dependent on the individual hose quality; type of oil used; and the amount of oil coming from the CCV into the hose just in front of the turbo. My son's (stoutdog) 06 hose was gone at about 30K miles but mine is still fine at about 50K miles. I'd make it an item to check while changing oil.

Yes a Samco replacement would be wonderful and has been discussed with Samco as I recall from old posts.
Author:  dgeist [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
I noticed a similar crack on my air hose last time I was in there (for the timing belt change) and sure enough, a few weeks later a telltale stream of oil coming down the bottom of the turbo casing and the drain tube appeared. A couple questions:

Does the replacement part come with a new elbow and/or hose to the CCV puck? Those went out on me and I've replaced with aftermarket, but had to apply a little hose-clamp-magic to make a seal at the turbo side since the diameter is not a common one. I'd like to replace it all with stock (or better) but don't know if the part(s) are included with the intake hose.

Dan
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
No CCV hose included
Author:  dgeist [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
papaindigo wrote:
No CCV hose included


The hose is pretty standard (and stretches). The elbow is the part which is the "tricky bit".... does that come attached?
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil from turbo. Need advice.
I just pulled my spare off the shelf. It's complete from air box end to turbo end including both clamps but excluding the CCV line although of course it has the place where the CCV line plugs in. From past install experience:
1. best done with the hose warm not cold as it gets stiff, I keep an old hair dryer in the garage for that sort of thing;
2. the turbo end should go almost all the way up to the turbo end of the flange although a gap of like 3/8" is ok.
3. the air box end MUST touch or almost touch the MAF sensor. Failure to get it all the way on WILL result in a crushed air box outlet flange, been there done that. Run the air box hose clamp down snug not godzilla, same as you should do on the plastic flange ends of the CAC hoses, and recheck tightness after a few days of driving.

Obviously check the turbo shaft for play while you are in there.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/