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What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
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Author:  kissfan79 [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Hey guys...
I have been noticing this treadwear pattern on my trailer tires and was wondering what causes this type of a pattern. These photos are of the passenger side tire o the tire turns clockwise. The trailer is a 7 1/2x 12 concession trailer that weighs about 3800-3900 pounds emtpy and about 4800-5000 pounds when ready for use. The tires are 225/75/15 trailer tires with a load range D.
Image

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The pattern goes all the way around the outside edge of the tire in the same pattern where every 2nd and 3rd lug is wearing down like that. Any ideas?

Thanks, Jim
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
I could be wrong but it looks to me like you have 2 issues a) irregular wear which is like a tire balance problem unless your trailer has shocks of some sort in which case it could be shocks and b) a tire alignment problem which could be a bent axle or an axle mount problem. However, with respect to the latter I had severe edge wear on my original trailer tires for no "findable" reason and once I replaced the tires the problem disappeared.
Author:  Hexus [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
It has a high speed wobble, which is both a balance and alignment issue.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Thanks for the replies guys. Being as these are trailer tires and not radials, would having them balanced help at all? The funny thing is that these are the same brand of tires (Carlisle Sport trailer tires) that I used to have on a smaller 5x8 utility pull cart type trailer and they did the same thing. The odd thing I find is that here is a pic of the other tire. This is the driver side tire that would rotate counter clockwise. You can see where it is just barely starting the same treadwear pattern as the other side even though both tires were installed at the same time just over 2 years ago. They have never been rotated to the other side.

Image

Could worn bearings cause this? Also.....the trailer does not have any springs or shocks. It does have a torsion flex axle in it.

Jim
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
All I can say is that I have a 1 axle trailer and with wheels unbalanced, I shocked the back of the jeep very very lightly, at over 50. Once I balanced them, didn't even know I had a trailer..
Author:  woodtick [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Also, IMHO, Carlisle tires are junk. I have them on my boat trailer which has no issues, and they have funny tread wear too. I've also seen them with a uneven appearance of the sidewalls. I will not buy them again.

I have heard from a number of others that they are dissatisfied too.

I recommend finding a better radial tire for your trailer.
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
kissfan79 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. Being as these are trailer tires and not radials, would having them balanced help at all? The funny thing is that these are the same brand of tires (Carlisle Sport trailer tires) that I used to have on a smaller 5x8 utility pull cart type trailer and they did the same thing. The odd thing I find is that here is a pic of the other tire. This is the driver side tire that would rotate counter clockwise. You can see where it is just barely starting the same treadwear pattern as the other side even though both tires were installed at the same time just over 2 years ago. They have never been rotated to the other side.

Image

Could worn bearings cause this? Also.....the trailer does not have any springs or shocks. It does have a torsion flex axle in it.

Jim


Worn Bearings, Lateral slop, etc.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
For reference: This wear pattern is called "cupping" and can happen to your vehicle tires too.

Generally speaking, trailer tires are junk. That is why for all my trailers, I drive to the local used tire yards and find SUV radial tires for $30/pop mounted. They even balance them, which is great.

Torsion axles are a form of spring suspension, so you DO have a trailer suspension. What it doesn't have is shock absorbers.

I had a similar problem with the tires on the Ford Escape that my family just bought to replace one that got wrecked. The tires that came with it were way too aggressive and wrong for the vehicle, and the front had cupped BADLY as well. We suspected parts of the suspension, but after replacing all 4 with new Goodyear Assurance tires, the problem is gone and has not returned.

Sometimes it is a suspension component or a bad alignment (cupping can come from several sources) but in the case of your trailer... It is probably just that the tires are complete junk. Digging around to find some decent used tires with a high load rating (That is why I look for SUV tires) will be a rewarding way to spend an afternoon. Chances are, you won't ever wear out the tread on them anyway, and they are just trailer tires... So why not save some major money over $75 EACH for the same crappy tire?
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
This, on a car, can also happen due to improper tire rotation. I have that on the xj, the tires had not been properly rotated (my fault for being lazy) and I had them wear like a 'gear'. Try rotating the tires on the same wheel if it's bothersome, so the inside of the tire would be outside, but for a trailer it may not worth...
Author:  kissfan79 [ Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Thanks for the replies guys. I only have one more festival that I'm using this concession trailer at this season and then it'll be in storage mode for the winter. Once that festival is over, I'll have a look-see at the wheel bearing and replace them if they are in bad shape. I'll probably also look into some better trailer tires for it as well as these ones are over 2 years old and i'd like to have some fresh ones under it for the upcoming season next year. I might check out the radial trailer tires this time around....or as Geordi suggested....look for some load range D or E SUV tires to put on there.

JIm
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
I haven't bought bias belt or radial trailer tires in ages. Just look for some good car/truck radial tires with the appropriate load rating for your trailer. Used but not to many years old (tires are stamped with date of manufacture although it may be coded) are fine.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Torsion axles with rubber springs are self-dampening. No shocks needed.

DOC
Author:  geordi [ Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
papaindigo wrote:
I haven't bought bias belt or radial trailer tires in ages. Just look for some good car/truck radial tires with the appropriate load rating for your trailer. Used but not to many years old (tires are stamped with date of manufacture although it may be coded) are fine.


SUV tires (anything LT rated) will be fine if the weight spec is over 1800lb per tire. 2200lb or north is just gravy, and will give you a larger safety factor over the load of the trailer.

I remember your trailer, that shouldn't have more than a 3500lb axle, right?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... entpage=35

This shows how to read most of the sidewall info, but (at least in a quick read) it doesn't seem to mention the date codes.
All tires must have a DOT number on them, and on one side of the tire, this DOT number will end in a pressed-in square. This is where the DOT date code is marked into the tire. Avoid any that are just 3 digits. Chances are you won't ever find one, but it is possible. Three digit codes are from BEFORE the year 2000.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=11

Found the page talking about the date code and how to translate it. This is important when looking at used tires - you don't want any tire older than 5 years, because after that the dry rot can start to take effect. Try to also avoid anything with obvious sidewall cracking (called checking) and you should be good.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Geordi,
Will the axles usually have any kind of a stamp on the side with the rating they carry? I think you are probably thinking of my smaller trailer which is a 6x10 enclosed. It has a max GVWR of 2900 pounds. My other trailer, which was back by the garage, weighs about 3800 pounds empty and has a 6 bolt pattern on the hubs/wheels. I'm thinking it has 5000 pound axles in it (or possibly slightly higher). I tried calling Wells Cargo one time to get more info on it but it was made in 1992 and they said they don't have info on trailer going back that far. I'd really love to find out the actual GVWR of my big trailer. I could always put the same Laredo HD/H tires that are on the Jeep on it. They have a load range of E and have been awesome on the Jeep so far. I have a feeling the tread on those will last for MANY years to come.

Jim
Author:  geordi [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Trailers don't change that much from year to year, so newer information probably would have been accurate too.

FWIW, my understanding is that 5-bolt hubs are for 3500 lb axles (what your smaller trailer probably has) and 6 bolt is the 5000 lb axle. Does that larger trailer have 2 axles or just one?

As long as the rims fit and are 16" to match the tires from the CRD, there isn't any reason why you couldn't transfer those load range E tires onto the trailer - you aren't kidding, they would probably last forever (except for dry rot and sidewall cracking) in trailer service.
Author:  Turbo Tim [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What causes this type of treadwear pattern?
Notice that “Trailer Tires” will have an “ST-“ stamped on the side. This designates a “Trailer Tire” and there are NO DOT ratings (because if they come apart, nobody goes to jail. Ask Firestone about this).
Also the ST rating states that it has a max speed of 65 MPH.
More info is on the NTSB web site about using DOT tires on a trailer instead of ST Trailer tires.
In other words, DUMP those tires ASAP! You will notice folk’s with the bigger 5th wheel trailers all have switched to SUV or Truck Tires with a load range of E. Note that the DOT rating and load range means that if the tire is not up to standards, someone goes to jail (and gets sued for lots of $$$).
Across the board (travel trailers, horse, car hauler trailer), anyone who has hauled a lot have switched to truck tires.
Also do not buy into the crap about the belts or cords being laid in differently on trailer tires so they won’t sway, or because the “Loading” is different. Total BS! Does your Jeep or Truck sway from side-to-side? Mine doesn’t. When the trailer brakes are applied so much that they lock up on a 5000 Lb trailer, is that any different than a 5000 Lb truck locking up the brakes?
These ST trailer tires have no ratings and most are defects, rebranded as trailer tires and sold for a premium price. They also up the tire pressure to reduce heat buildup.
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