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CEL won't go off...MAF error
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Author:  bigl0af [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  CEL won't go off...MAF error

I've had an 06 liberty crd for about a year now. At 113k miles I got a cel. The jeep dealership has replaced the MAF sensor, the MAP sensor, the EGL valve, cleaned the intake valves, and adjusted the timing which they said was "slightly" off. All this and they still get an error code 110 (I believe that's right but could be wrong - it's related to the MAF sensor).

Question - what have they not done that they should do or look at?

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Author:  bigl0af [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

By the way, oil has been changed by me regularly no more than every 7k miles with 5w40, timing belt was done at exactly 100k mikes, and a thermostat was also replaced at 113k mikes (running stuck open). I drive almost all highway on cruise control, 70mph. No towing, minimal use of 4wd.

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Author:  Hexus [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

If the timing was "slightly off" you would have a "slightly" undriveable vehicle and it would be sitting at the dealership with broken/bent rockers/lifters before it made it out of the lot on it's test drive.

They are such idiots. I'll go ahead and say you are foolish as well if you buy any of that BS and pay for any "timing adjustment."

They need to figure it out.

P0110 - Intake Air Temp sensor signal voltage too High/too Low.

If they have replaced the sensor (even new isn't always working properly though), then it's most likely a short to ground. DUH.

Also, change your relays out.

Who the hell do they hire to work at these places?

Author:  thermorex [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Hexus wrote:
If the timing was "slightly off" you would have a "slightly" undriveable vehicle and it would be sitting at the dealership with broken/bent rockers/lifters before it made it out of the lot on it's test drive.

They are such idiots. I'll go ahead and say you are foolish as well if you buy any of that BS and pay for any "timing adjustment."

They need to figure it out.

P0110 - Intake Air Temp sensor signal voltage too High/too Low.

If they have replaced the sensor (even new isn't always working properly though), then it's most likely a short to ground. DUH.

Also, change your relays out.

Who the hell do they hire to work at these places?


Come on man, every idiot that pays for school those days needs to get his degree and diploma. That's the main reason I started to work everything on my Jeeps. All those dealer techs know (well, the vast majority of them) is to plug the drb3, read codes and throw in new parts, hoping it will fix the issue...

It's even worse when such Idiots work in healthcare...

Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

My :2cents:
1. did they bother to tell you what the original CEL was? If it was P0110 that doesn't relate to the MAF (mass air flow) sensor, I don't think, rather the FSM says it relates to the air temperature/boost pressure sensor otherwise known as the MAP sensor. If I'm wrong and it does relate to to the MAF sensor the first thing to check is wiring continuity and if the wiring is plugged in solidly as if bad both can throw a code and the MAF wiring/plug are known issue points. If I'm right and it's the MAP you can pull it yourself (4mm allen key if I recall; don't drop the tiny washer) and clean it or just replace with a GM PN 55206797 which costs like $25 and see what happens.
2. I assume by EGL you mean EGR which has, as far as I know, little or nothing to do with the issue at hand and is virtually the first part a clueless dealer will toss on your vehicle to see if it fixes something (surprise if it doesn't you still pay for the new part) notwithstanding the fact that it can be cleaned and put back on or cured by a GDE tune.
3. to be blunt if they say and charged you for cleaning the intake valves and adjusting the timing they flat out LIED as the only way to clean the valves involves pulling the serp belt, timing belt, cams, valve cover, head, etc plus the only way to "adjust" the timing is to do a timing belt job so unless they charged you like $2,000 they did neither of these things. To the extent the electrical timing (not to be confused with the mechanical timing of crank and cams) is "adjustable" that's programmed into the ECU/ECM and as far as I know DCJ does not touch that other than with the F-37 engine detune and the ECU/ECM does not just reprogram timing such that timing needs adjustment all by itself.

You might drop Keith at GDE a note but I'd look at a) drop in a new GM MAP sensor as that's cheap; b) carefully inspect wiring to MAP and MAF including wiring inside the wire loom across the top of the engine as chaffing has been reported; and c) find another place to work on the vehicle as this dealer doesn't know what they are doing. With respect to c) where are you located maybe there is help nearby.

Author:  bigl0af [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Located in Raleigh, NC. I'll get the codes they're pulling.

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Author:  bigl0af [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Looks like the computer was sending them on a wild goose chase. One rocker arm was broke and several more were on the way out. P0101 was the only code they were getting. I should have my Liberty back next week so let's see if the rocker arm replacement fixes that.

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Author:  kjjet [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Hope that fixes it, but that's going to be expensive!! The Stealerships usually guess, which cost you a lot $$.

I would guess the rockers are worn out!! From EGR use. If you plan on keeping it? Contact Green Diesel Engineering.

Good luck
KJJET

Author:  kissfan79 [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

bigl0af wrote:
Located in Raleigh, NC. I'll get the codes they're pulling.

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Hey....another CRD owner in Raleigh! :BANANA: If you are tired of dealing with the dealer (who are you using by the way?)....give Jerry a call at Global Off Road and Diesel a call. Their number is 919-784-0411. They did my timing belt job and they were very reasonably priced for the labor (I supplied the parts). He has dealt with CRD's in our area and I'll go back to to him for service I need. They are off Barefoot Industrial Drive off of Glenwood Ave not to far from the Angus Barn. Hope this helps.

Jim

Author:  kissfan79 [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

bigl0af wrote:
Looks like the computer was sending them on a wild goose chase. One rocker arm was broke and several more were on the way out. P0101 was the only code they were getting. I should have my Liberty back next week so let's see if the rocker arm replacement fixes that.

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I had a P0101 CEL code. Mine was cleared up by replacing the air filter (which was indeed dirty). It took a few starts and some driving before the CEL went away.

Jim

Author:  kjjet [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Dirty air filters do bad things to the CRD for sure!! Keep a clean one on hand. I remove mine every oil change for cleaning. Install a clean paper filter while I clean, dry and treat the K&N. Some don't believe in the K&N but I have been using them in lots of engines for years with never a issue.

I have found early on with my CRD that a dirty filter causes the transmission to shift badly.

Clean them or change them. Just do it often!!

Good Luck,
KJJET

Author:  bigl0af [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

kissfan79 wrote:
bigl0af wrote:
Located in Raleigh, NC. I'll get the codes they're pulling.

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Hey....another CRD owner in Raleigh! :BANANA: If you are tired of dealing with the dealer (who are you using by the way?)....give Jerry a call at Global Off Road and Diesel a call. Their number is 919-784-0411. They did my timing belt job and they were very reasonably priced for the labor (I supplied the parts). He has dealt with CRD's in our area and I'll go back to to him for service I need. They are off Barefoot Industrial Drive off of Glenwood Ave not to far from the Angus Barn. Hope this helps.

Jim


I've been going to Westgate jeep, also on Glenwood (near briar creek).

My 3rd party warranty via PWC covered the first $2k in repair costs, and I'm paying $300 out of pocket if I don't get a CEL after putting 1k miles on it, to replace all rockers, rocker cam, and a new gasket. Will, the service manager at Westgate, has been excellent about working with me on this, even letting me put miles on it before paying (I have been in and out of the shop no less than 6 times chasing this CEL issue). As part of chasing the computer codes and following the STAR run book, they replaced the PCM and said if it didn't fix the problem they would put the old one back or leave the new one in, no charge. The CEL indeed came back on, and so I've got a new PCM no charge.

Parts replaced to this point are:
MAF sensor
MAP sensor
EGR valve
PCM
Air filter
All rocker arms
Rocker cam

Hopefully my troubles are at an end but, in case not, I now have an OBD2-to-Bluetooth adapter and I'll be dumping all computer data for the next 1k miles in case the CEL comes back on. "Big Data" y'all! :-)

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Author:  kjjet [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CEL won't go off...MAF error

Wow... a dealer with a hart. Nice find.

Good luck with your CRD!!

KJJET

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