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camshaft help
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77645		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  x-tech [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  camshaft help
I need help finding camshaft seal groove repair sleeves for my 05 CRD. If anyone knows of a source for the for the sleeves, or the size of the cam snout where the seals run please let me know. I think I can research a sleeve that will work if I know the snout size. Thanks Pete
Author:  kjjet [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
I'm not quite sure what you need. The original cam shafts have a Seal, Snap ring, and washer. Any new replacement camshafts do not use the washer. This messed me up for a little while until I asked Jeep.

If I'm reading you correctly, you want to repair the aluminum groove where the seal fits by installing a sleeve? I do not know of anyone doing this. Machine shop needed for sure. If you do this be sure to re- drill the oil hole.


Sorry not much help.
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
x-tech wrote:
I need help finding camshaft seal groove repair sleeves for my 05 CRD. If anyone knows of a source for the for the sleeves, or the size of the cam snout where the seals run please let me know. I think I can research a sleeve that will work if I know the snout size. Thanks Pete



From the FSM:

INSTALLATION - CAMSHAFTS
1. Lubricate camshafts with MoparT Engine Oil Supplement, or equivalent.
2. Carefully install camshafts into access holes in rear of cylinder head cover/intake manifold.
3. Install thrust washer, snap ring, and camshaft oil seal.
CHECKING CAMSHAFT ENDPLAY
1. After camshafts are properly installed in cylinder head cover check end play of camshafts with a dial indicator.
The end play should be between 0.10 mm - 0.55 mm.
NOTE: If the camshaft endplay is not within specification, measure thickness of the camshaft spacer. Camshaft
spacer thickness should be 2.8 ± .02mm.
4. Measure the camshaft end play with a dial indicator. The end play should be between 0.10 mm-0.55 mm.
5. Install access hole plugs and gaskets at rear of cylinder head cover/intake manifold. Torque plugs to 80N·m.(59
ft. lbs.).
6. Install cylinder head cover/intake manifold

If you have too much slop in the intake because of an unbalanced CAM shaft due to Rocker/Lifter damage, then I would say that you need to get a New Intake.

The intakes in these are aluminum and you cannot weld to or machine out aluminum without compromising the tensile strength of everything around it.

I wouldn't trust a "sleeve" to fix a wear issue in aluminum, you're more likely to have the sleeve moving inside the aluminum causing more wear and damage.

:2cents:
Author:  jeepdan [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
I think that, maybe he is asking about a product like Redi-sleeves.
It's a stainless sleeve that presses over a grooved, worn seal surface of a shaft, or pinion yoke.
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
jeepdan wrote:
I think that, maybe he is asking about a product like Redi-sleeves.
It's a stainless sleeve that presses over a grooved, worn seal surface of a shaft, or pinion yoke.


I know, and I still stand by my earlier statement.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
What I think he is asking for is the intake & exhaust cam journal dimensions where the seal rides in thousands of an inch so he can order redi-sleeves? :roll:
Anyone got some cams they can measure with a micrometer?
Author:  x-tech [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
WWDiesel wrote:
What I think he is asking for is the intake & exhaust cam journal dimensions where the seal rides in thousands of an inch so he can order redi-sleeves? :roll:
Anyone got some cams they can measure with a micrometer?

Sorry for the confusion! Yes yes the info I need is either the accurate diameter for the area on the front of the cams where the seal lip contacts the cam, or a part # and brand for a repair sleeve that fits on the cam and covers the grooves. I was doing the rocker arm inspection , ARP head bolt replacement, clean up intake, and clean up cyl head intake ports and and valve heads job(what a freaking mess!). When, as I was ready to install the new cam seals, I see deep grooves cut into the seal lip contact areas on cams; I tried to reposition the seal contact area by driving the seal in further no luck the seals are leaking,(oil every where)good old murphy. I plan to replace the new timing belt as well as the new seals. ANY help would be very appreciated!!!
Author:  Hexus [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Alright, since no one was listening the first time, I'll try it again and only once more.

There is SOMETHING WRONG THERE and buying and installing a sleeve IS NOT GOING TO FIX IT.

There is either a balance issue with the cams, they are bent, or not getting lubricated, etc.

SLEEVES ARE NOT GOING TO FIX IT.

Sure, it's cheap, it's simple, it'll work (for now), but it does not address the root problem.

You are tripping over dollars to pick up dimes. It is your engine after all, and if you have more money than sense (assuming you must) then go right ahead!

What you need is either A. New Camshafts, B. New Intake, or (Most likely) C. Both A + B

End of Public Service Announcement.
Author:  x-tech [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Hexus wrote:
Alright, since no one was listening the first time, I'll try it again and only once more.

There is SOMETHING WRONG THERE and buying and installing a sleeve IS NOT GOING TO FIX IT.

There is either a balance issue with the cams, they are bent, or not getting lubricated, etc.
fix for crank
SLEEVES ARE NOT GOING TO FIX IT.

Sure, it's cheap, it's simple, it'll work (for now), but it does not address the root problem.

You are tripping over dollars to pick up dimes. It is your engine after all, and if you have more money than sense (assuming you must) then go right ahead!

What you need is either A. New Camshafts, B. New Intake, or (Most likely) C. Both A + B

End of Public Service Announcement.
Obviously not an engine person! The cams turn at i/2 crankshaft speed so the most RPM they see is approx 2000 so NO balance problem. As far as a bent cam is concerned, both? A quality SS repair sleeve is a common and industry accepted fix for cranks cams and front pulleys.SLEEVES WILL FIX IT!!!!!!
Author:  x-tech [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
If anyone has a cam out and will mike the seal contact area on an intake or exhaust cam for an 05 or 06 2.8l CRD and put that # on this post I will be very grateful to you. Thanks
Author:  jeepdan [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
I wish that I had a camshaft to mic for you, but I don't. Hopefully someone can.
If, and when you find the correct redi-sleeve, please post the part number.
You really have my curiosity up.
Did you find the old camshaft seals leaking bad when you removed the timing cover the first time?
Author:  x-tech [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
No the seals were dry; But I had to remove the seals to remove the cams to properly clean the manifold. I did not notice how bad the cams were grooved until I was reassembling and needed the jeep. I tried to set the new seals in deeper to avoid the worn(grooved) area but Murphy was watching and they are now leaking. Thanks so much for the response.
Author:  kjjet [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Sorry no good news.

KJJET
Author:  x-tech [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
thanks KJJET but someone may yet be able to help. x-tech
Author:  kjjet [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
I cant believe a grove was worn into the cams from a rubber seal?
Author:  x-tech [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Hard to believe that rubber cut steel; but I have experienced and repaired many parts worn in this way.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Back in my engine rebuilding days, it was a common problem for a deep grove to be worn into harmonic balancers where the front crankshaft seal rode. Fix was a press on Redi-sleve!!! :SOMBRERO:
Author:  x-tech [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Yes WWDiesel same here. My problem is no listing for the CRD cam, I may be able to spec. a listing when I get the size. Thanks for the response. x.tech
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
Surely someone out there has a blown CRD motor apart and can measure with a micrometer the camshaft journal where the seal rides and post the specs? :banghead:
Author:  kjjet [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: camshaft help
x-tech wrote:
Hard to believe that rubber cut steel; but I have experienced and repaired many parts worn in this way.


Low quality parts. Shafts in aircraft I work on go over 50,000 hours with no issues.

You are sure the leak is coming from the center of the seal? Sometimes when the seals are pressed in they will leak around the outer edge where the seal meets the housing. Just small gouges in the housing caused upon removal can cause this. Just asking??

Also the is a oil return within the seal housing, If you press it to deep it may block it causing a oil leak.

Too bad I thru my old cam in the trash.

Good luck!
KJJET
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