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Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77806		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  toy_vw [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve?
Hey Ive got the numbers for the FCV and the MAF, does anyone have the DTC number when you unplug the actual EGR valve itself?

is it p2101?
or? any other faults come up with the egr removed?

thanks guys
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
I'm wondering the same thing. I want to completely remove my egr system, hoses, cooler, everything. Weld the bung shut on the exhaust manifold and tape up the harness connector. Going to ask kieth at gde if he can completely disable it or if it still needs to be plugged in?
Author:  Glend [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
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Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
What happens when you just unplug the maf sensor? Does the egr valve stay closed? So does your egr just dump boost to atmosphere, or where does it go since your tube is cutoff?
Just trying to wrap my head around how this engine operates and its systems. Quite a bit different than what I'm used too.
Author:  Glend [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
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Author:  dkenny [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
ok..I'm puzzled..
a turbo surge protection..from?
overboost? only venting outside the system..to air will help..
or cutting fuel..
overboost could only come from too much fuel...
the turbo is driven by exhaust...the varible vanes to change the drotation/dt but the exhaust must be there to support the turbo spin speed..

so what about SEGR setups..are they bad..they electronically fool the ECU about the EGR?


regardless.. an EGR setup on a dieset is bad unless the exhaust is filered prior to the intake

-dkenny
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
Surge is when boost can't squeeze thru the cylinders, so it travels back to the compressor and you'll hear a flutter. Its not good on the turbo, but it won't kill it. I can hear it with my cone filter. It happens most/best when the turbo is making full boost (accelerating hard or towing up a hill) and then you suddenly back off the throttle. GDE uses the disabled egr to run in reverse. Instead of exhaust going into intake, the surge in the intake goes over to the exhaust, or in Glends setup dumps it to open air. Pretty neat idea. Although just adjusting your driving will prevent it from happening anyways.
Author:  Glend [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
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Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
To answer your original question; my EGR is totally blocked with a plate, all coolant lines removed. Been this way for several months now with no adverse problems. The only code I get is an occasional P0401 code which I simply reset with my DRB tool. As to blow-off, my Dodge Cummins has no such devise from the factory, so I opted not to worry about it on the little VM diesel. If it makes one feel better, there are many blow-off valves available on the web that mounts in the boost hose to relieve any over-pressure, its a common thing on gas turbo systems. I have no GDE tune, only a Diablo Extreme Power Puck.
Author:  Glend [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
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Author:  dkenny [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
so the egr is used like a waste gate.
which most other diesels have. include my dodge..but I've disabled

thanks for the info..
my wifes jeep still has the egr but is bypassed with SEGR..
I never thought dumping the exhaust back into the intake was a good idea

-dkenny
Author:  toy_vw [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
well...im not going to get involved with this surge protection you speak of and dumping it through the EGR.

You have 2 situations for compressor surge. One is ONLY noticeable on gasoline vehicles that control the amount of air entering the engine with a throttle plate. When a turbocharger is flowing air, which is compressed by the intake restrictions, closing the throttle plate would cause an instantaneous spike in compressed air flow from the turbocharger, so manufacturers "vent' the pressure between the turbocharger and the the throttle plate with a recirculation valve or "blow off valve". both of which "vent" the compressed air to either atmosphere or back to the inlet side of the turbocharger as per SMOG regulation.

condition number 2 is when the turbocharger flows an excessive amount of airflow, and due to intake and engine inlet restrictions, the amount of airflow exceeds what the cylinder can ingest during the intake stroke causing the compressor to stall/surge...this is the worst scenario as excessive exhaust flow and stalling the compressor, could potentially and most likely snap the turbocharger shaft or cause excessive bearing loads and ...again...damage the turbocharger...

now...IM NOT A PROFESSIONAL TUNER...or an engineer or anything, and I wont argue anything on my experience or lack of. BUT the only condition i can see is number 2, and I just find it highly unlikely within set parameters of the ecm, except for the fact that DC is retarded and when they paired with Bosch to make the truck run, they got lazy and were covering their asses.

Maybe THIS system uses the egr valve to "vent" excessive boost pressure, to "prevent" surge, in which case..this is the first time ive ever seen it..from the small 3 cylinder deutz engines to the massive cummins qsk 60's I see all the time...good job chrysler...another retarded idea you had...

ANYWAYS

I only have one question...and its...which code does the ecm show...when the egr valve is disconnected...it should show a open circuit fault..

I was hoping someone Knew so i dont have to go and lose my hand trying to disconnect the connector.

I am doing this to help out fellow CRD owners...feel free to message me for more information

thanks guys
Author:  kjjet [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
I have NO EGR, NO FCV, NO EGR COOLER, NO lines. NOTHING. ALL Gone for the last 20k. I have a GDE tune, so no codes. The best thing i have ever done. You don't have to worry about the EGR sticking and causing unknown problems due to no codes with the GDE tune. As for back pressure relief? I don't think its necessary. I operated several Diesel's without one. No issue. Getting rid of the EGR is better than keeping it.

Good Luck KJJET!
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
Glend wrote:
So WWdiesel what did you do to get around the Flow Control Valve attempting to create EGR suction through its butterfly plate movement to restrict the intake air and mix the EGR gases? GDE does away with that plate movement except on engine shutdown. If your running the stock ECU that plate movement will continue and potentialy degrade performance during the normal EGR injection sequence.


Sorry, I did forget to list the fact that I removed the butterfly plate in the FCV as advised by others on this list. EGR & FVC are still hooked up electronically, but they serve no function except to keep the OBC happy... :roll:

As some others have stated on this list, I do not think the EGR is needed at all for blow-off! :2cents:
My 98 Dodge Cummins has no such devise on it when built and the wastegate has been blocked off for over 80,000 trouble free miles. Again, if it makes you feel better, buy and install an aftermarket blowoff valve in the boost hose. But by all means, get rid of that EGR, it is an engine killer! :dead:
Author:  toy_vw [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
you cant just "install" a Blow off valve as our engine doesnt produce a pressure differential via a throttle plate...aka..no vacuum which is actually what pulls or pushes a blow off valve open...there are "cheater ways" to make one work...but In my opinion...installing a blow off valve on a diesel is like putting a 6" muffler on your suzuki swift...

I anticipate ill be pulling the connector off the the egr solonoid tommorow...ill start the life insurance claim
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
Actually, diesel specific blow off valves are starting to come on the market. With twin and triple turbos pushing boost numbers close to or in the triple digits, bov's are becoming essential to a safe and reliable setup. Do I think the lil 2.8crd needs one, no. But its a neat feature I think. If I get time tomorrow I'll look through the diagnostic manual to see what code should pop up. A couple things for sure, with the gde tune, no codes. One member says he occasionally gets a p0401 code, whatever that may be.
Author:  toy_vw [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
well, for what its worth. I currently have my maf and FCV disconnected...with no CEL...what I did was unplug the sensors/components...see what faults came up and then using tuning software...disabled the faults from coming up.

so..my theory is...if you unplug the maf...the egr does not function ( as i have read here)...but you get a cel...so I deleted the DTC table and....now...with my truck running...I have no CEL...and an unplugged maf and fcv...which in turn means no more egr..(OR minimal egr)

Im not a professional...and what GDE does is FAR superior to what im doing...but so far ive eliminated the egr (hoping), increased my torque with no f37 limitations, increased my turbocharger output, upped fuel pressure slightly to safe limits of the HP3 pump within the IQ/requested torque limits...pretty much am happier with my jeep then ever...

Ive invested alot of time and money into learning about the Bosch edc16c31 ecm and how it works...and how different it is from similar software in other other makes using this ECM...

Im doing this mostly for my own knowledge...I play around alot locally with Standalone fuel management and have set up many cars for friends...theres alot more support in the VW world with self tuning of OEM programming...and this is relatively new to me...and almost causing me to divorce my wife ( HAHA)...

my method doesnt fully disable the ECM from wanting to actuate the EGR...and as i continue...im slowly learning how to go about doing that...but thus far, as ive read...no maf=no egr...and...as ive noted...i no longer have excessive exhaust smoke while the egr is active..

Ill pull the plug tommorow and continue with my experimentation..

Cheers guys and happy motoring
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
P0401 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected.
Don't know how it knows this other than the MAF? :shock:
thoughts,
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
WWDiesel wrote:
P0401 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected.
Don't know how it knows this other than the MAF? :shock:
thoughts,


MAP sensor?
Author:  toy_vw [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fault is present when you disconnect the EGR valve
That code is for the MAf sensor...p401 and p0402...both maf related..ive solved this one...i get a P1140 when the fcv is disconnected...

we got bombarded with rain, snow and freezing temps...i cant be bothered to go outside at the moment...but ill go unplug the egr valve and report back
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