Leaking Coolant, pull to the HG or just ARP Stud it?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:53 am

no such water coolant for the turbo, so you can count that out. Doesn't sound like a head gasket either. Probably a radiator hose or other water line

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:50 pm

So the head is back from the machine shop.. The head was fairly flat... 1 thousandth off.. But when they milled it they had to take 4 to get it flat.. He was worried that this would cause clearance problems.. What do you guys think? He also suggested a thicker HG

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geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Why would that change the clearance? The top of the combustion chamber is still the bottom of the head. This engine needs a different gasket based on the liner protrusions from BELOW, not any changes from above.

Anyone smarter, feel free to correct me, but my understanding of this engine is that you didn't even change the compression ratio by making the head thinner - because the bottom of the head will still be the same distance from the deck of the block, with the gasket in between.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:37 pm

His thought was valve clearance.. The valves are closer to the piston

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05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm gonna stick with the same HG and run with it

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geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:55 pm

That is a valid concern... On any other engine. If 4 thousandths was enough to cause mayhem on your engine, I'd be concerned about anybody being even one tooth off on the cam timing.

I don't think the valve timing is that close, honestly. Then again, let the measured differences between the thinnest gasket and the thickest be your guide - No Holes - 1.32mm Thickness, 1 Hole - 1.42 mm Thickness, 2 Holes - 1.52 mm Thickness.

4 thou = 0.1016 mm, so you need to know which gasket you have now. The spacing of the top of the liners to the head isn't in question, but maybe a few mils extra gasket wouldn't be the worst? The cost of being wrong could be that it wouldn't bar over by hand, OR you could instantly bend one or all the rods if it DID start and something wasn't kosher.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:57 pm

I have the 1 hole right now

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geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:13 pm

Ok, that's good.

Assuming for a moment that the no-hole would allow a stock engine to *just barely* clear the valves, that means that the minimum distance would be something just under 1.32mm clearance. If you had that gasket, your new valve clearance could be 1.22mm... Which might offer a nice increase in compression - although I'm not certain how, since the valves are still seating when closed against the bottom of the head, which still has the same spacing to the deck / pistons as before - only their opening throw might be a little deeper.

But with the mid-size gasket, your theoretical minimum should only be 1.32mm now, which is one of the acceptable options.

Obviously, I would strongly suggest rotating the engine by hand before ever trying to start it. If you are game to reset the timing afterwards (just 90 ATDC on #1, you can get this with a feeler stick onto the piston) you might want to rotate the pistons with the head bolted down and the cams NOT - that way you know that if the valves are all closed, there isn't even a chance of contact / collision. You'd feel it instantly, and without doing too much work.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:17 pm

So with the head on i can rotate the engine just make sure to get the mark on the crank back to correct timing and the flywheel pin back in.

I was going to turn it with the timing belt and all on before starting..

Like you i doubt the thickness of a human hair is the tolerance inside this engine

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geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:42 pm

Yes, and this is the key to remember: There is no "intake" or "exhaust" stroke when the cams are not connected to the crankshaft. The crank will bring up piston #1 to TDC (rotate clockwise as you are looking at the engine) and then 1/4 turn after that, is 90 ATDC which would be the proper place to stop when you are proceeding to close everything up.

A feeler stick onto the top of the piston through the injector hole will illustrate exactly where #1 piston is at any given time. You can spin the engine as many times as you'd like, just stop it 1/4 turn after TDC and you will be in the perfect place to set the timing later. The bolt holes on the crank hub should be at 3/6/9/12, and if you are so inclined, the flywheel pin should go in just far enough to get jammed in all the filth in that hole.

I've never gotten that flywheel pin to work, btw.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:56 pm

When I get home I'll see if that hole is working.. I got a bolt pretty far in there and it is solid.. Might even show the girlfriend how the pistons move... That'll entertain her for a few milliseconds.. Haha!

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geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:58 pm

05infernoCRDL wrote:

Might even show the girlfriend how the pistons move... That'll entertain her for a few milliseconds.. Haha!

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I predict no nookie for you in the near future! :ALONE:

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

You could test fit the gasket and head for piston clearance. Put some playdoh or moldable putty in the eyebrows on piston. install gasket, head and a 4 head bolts (with light load). Rotate engine, take apart and measure the swished portion of the putty. Plastigage works the best but who keeps that sitting around?

I am not sure what the factory valve clearance is, should be a worthwhile test.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:33 am

I put the head on sans playdoh.. Everything rotated just fine... But i was unaware that the piston came that far up the cylinder... I cranked it over a few times without the head on.. Came up to by eye the very top..

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05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:22 pm

On a few of the stud's after tightening everything i ended up about 1/2 thread short of coming through the top of the bolt.. Is this an issue?

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geordi · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:35 pm

Generally when installing the studs, start with the nut and washer already on the stud and flush with the top of the stud. Then when you tighten the nut to spec (put the stud in to contact the head) you should end up with two threads exposed above the nut.

I would loosen the ones that didn't end up correct (one at a time is ok) and reset them.

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05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:25 am

So i just bolted the valve cover on.. Went to spin the crank to see if anything touched.. It did.. I'm gonna take a wild guess that bolting the valve cover on pushes a valve open... Am i correct?

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geordi · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:32 am

If the pins are in and the two 'keyholes' are pointing at each other - YES. The pinned position holds open 4 valves, which is why I install a valve cover without the pins in place, it makes it easier to work with.

If you remove the pins, you can rotate each cam with a set of vise-grips about 1/12th turn clockwise and all the valves should be closed. It shouldn't be hard to find the right spot, the spring tension will naturally want to settle where the springs are compressed the least.

If it still contacts the valves when you have it this way and all the valves are closed... You have problems.

The next step after that would be to put the inner cover back on and set the timing belt up - Then rotate again with the cams and crank playing nicely together. If THAT passes muster, then button everything else up.

Good luck.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:56 am

With the valve cover off the crank spun with ease (i left the gp out so i wouldn't fight compression).. These engines are balanced nicely i think.. Everything just spun and went further than i moved the wrench.. I'm gonna get the timing belt on and crank it a few times again

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05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue May 06, 2014 12:59 pm

All done and buttoned up.. Much quieter and seems to be more power!!

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Leaking Coolant, pull to the HG or just ARP Stud it?

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